6 ms·

This is eye-opening. I make a fraction of what Steve does and am still dumb enough to be hitting 20% at the machine every time I go out. If 0% is good enough f

by ryandv 2y ago

This is eye-opening. I make a fraction of what Steve does and am still dumb enough to be hitting 20% at the machine every time I go out. If 0% is good enough for Mr. Ballmer, it's good enough for me.

ethbr1 2y ago
There's a difference between being frugal and being an asshole. If you have enough money that tips are a rounding error for you -- not tipping just makes you an asshole.
- 71bw 2y ago
  It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand? It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. 0% tip all the way everywhere. No matter if I have $10 or $10k on the bill.
  - YawningAngel 2y ago
    There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff and if you choose to ignore that fact and stiff them that's on you
    - highwaylights 2y ago
      I do tip, but is this perspective really helping the people that live off their tips? You don’t feel the need to tip the people stacking shelves at Walmart or the Amazon driver. In almost any other job we reasonably expect that someone’s compensation is between them and their employer and that the state should be making sure they’re protected from exploitatively low income. Why are waiting staff a special case? People have worse jobs that come without tips and it doesn’t seem to bother anybody. Those tips are expected now and irrelevant to service so it’s also just helping employers get away with paying those staff members less, so it’s really just subsidizing restaurants and cafes at this point.
    - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
      > There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff I'm not aware of this, but then the U.S. has a different tipping culture to elsewhere. Have you got any examples? Also, if it's your responsibility to pay the staff, do you also get the right to dictate how they do their job (within reason)?
    - vasco 2y ago
      If you didn't employ them you don't have to pay their salary, or even know how to start to evaluate what that would be.
    - 71bw 2y ago
      > There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff For example?
    - itsoktocry 2y ago
      >There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff Name one (let alone "lots").
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    > It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand? That's exactly the point? Buying iced tea everyday for some time means that he liked it. Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates
    - master-lincoln 2y ago
      I also use that one park garage all the time and my streets are snow plowed and I appreciate that. Still I don't know anyone who tips those workers. Do they provide less service than the person making me a drink? I personally only tip if service was extraordinary and I appreciated it. Which is once a full moon at best
    - itsoktocry 2y ago
      >Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates He shows appreciation by showing up and buying tea every day. How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Judging by the number of ads in Windows, maybe $1/day.
      - meiraleal 2y ago
        > How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it? I don't use their products which for me are all garbage and I tip often free and open source software. Now the important thing, comparing "tipping" Apple and Microsoft to giving a tip to a minimum wage worker is quite evil.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    This is a pretty heartless reply. I will be downvoted for expressing my view here. > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out, can offset that gap, just a little bit, by tipping.
    - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
      I don't think you're wrong, but I can't help thinking that the tip money would be better off funnelled towards political change.
    - rowanG077 2y ago
      And keep this twisted system in place. The only way for it to finally collapse is if people stop always tipping. To me that's truly heartless.
    - grecy 2y ago
      > Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. And by tipping you are keeping it so they can just afford to keep making ends meet, thus enabling the status quo. It could be argued you are continuing the problem.
    - vasco 2y ago
      And you work to keep the system the same way. You work to earn, and then spend your money sponsoring the system when it's optional for you to sponsor it.
    - pkphilip 2y ago
      Interestingly, I have never seen tips being demanded by restaurant staff almost as an entitlement in any other country other than the US - even in far poorer nations.
    - itsoktocry 2y ago
      >Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic This has no bearing in reality. Most of these places can't staff their stores because no one will work for prevailing wages. >Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich. Raise your prices and pay your staff.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. I don't get this argument, because at the end of the day you're paying both ways. Either you're paying higher menu prices (because labor costs have increased) or you're paying tips (because labor costs are artificially low and you're supplementing them). There is no magical "the business pays its employees more, but everything you buy stays the same price." Especially not with food service margins.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by ryandv 2y ago

This is eye-opening. I make a fraction of what Steve does and am still dumb enough to be hitting 20% at the machine every time I go out. If 0% is good enough for Mr. Ballmer, it's good enough for me.

ethbr1 2y ago

There's a difference between being frugal and being an asshole. If you have enough money that tips are a rounding error for you -- not tipping just makes you an asshole.

71bw 2y ago
It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand? It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. 0% tip all the way everywhere. No matter if I have $10 or $10k on the bill.
- YawningAngel 2y ago
  There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff and if you choose to ignore that fact and stiff them that's on you
  - highwaylights 2y ago
    I do tip, but is this perspective really helping the people that live off their tips? You don’t feel the need to tip the people stacking shelves at Walmart or the Amazon driver. In almost any other job we reasonably expect that someone’s compensation is between them and their employer and that the state should be making sure they’re protected from exploitatively low income. Why are waiting staff a special case? People have worse jobs that come without tips and it doesn’t seem to bother anybody. Those tips are expected now and irrelevant to service so it’s also just helping employers get away with paying those staff members less, so it’s really just subsidizing restaurants and cafes at this point.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    > There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff I'm not aware of this, but then the U.S. has a different tipping culture to elsewhere. Have you got any examples? Also, if it's your responsibility to pay the staff, do you also get the right to dictate how they do their job (within reason)?
  - vasco 2y ago
    If you didn't employ them you don't have to pay their salary, or even know how to start to evaluate what that would be.
  - 71bw 2y ago
    > There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff For example?
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    >There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff Name one (let alone "lots").
- meiraleal 2y ago
  > It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand? That's exactly the point? Buying iced tea everyday for some time means that he liked it. Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates
  - master-lincoln 2y ago
    I also use that one park garage all the time and my streets are snow plowed and I appreciate that. Still I don't know anyone who tips those workers. Do they provide less service than the person making me a drink? I personally only tip if service was extraordinary and I appreciated it. Which is once a full moon at best
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    >Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates He shows appreciation by showing up and buying tea every day. How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Judging by the number of ads in Windows, maybe $1/day.
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      > How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it? I don't use their products which for me are all garbage and I tip often free and open source software. Now the important thing, comparing "tipping" Apple and Microsoft to giving a tip to a minimum wage worker is quite evil.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  This is a pretty heartless reply. I will be downvoted for expressing my view here. > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out, can offset that gap, just a little bit, by tipping.
  - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
    I don't think you're wrong, but I can't help thinking that the tip money would be better off funnelled towards political change.
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    And keep this twisted system in place. The only way for it to finally collapse is if people stop always tipping. To me that's truly heartless.
  - grecy 2y ago
    > Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. And by tipping you are keeping it so they can just afford to keep making ends meet, thus enabling the status quo. It could be argued you are continuing the problem.
  - vasco 2y ago
    And you work to keep the system the same way. You work to earn, and then spend your money sponsoring the system when it's optional for you to sponsor it.
  - pkphilip 2y ago
    Interestingly, I have never seen tips being demanded by restaurant staff almost as an entitlement in any other country other than the US - even in far poorer nations.
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    >Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic This has no bearing in reality. Most of these places can't staff their stores because no one will work for prevailing wages. >Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich. Raise your prices and pay your staff.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS. I don't get this argument, because at the end of the day you're paying both ways. Either you're paying higher menu prices (because labor costs have increased) or you're paying tips (because labor costs are artificially low and you're supplementing them). There is no magical "the business pays its employees more, but everything you buy stays the same price." Especially not with food service margins.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]