4 ms·

Wouldn't it make even more sense to replace your quick bad handwriting with perfect Helvetica?

abdullahkhalids 2y ago
There is (subjective) charm in handwritten text that is simply not present in digital fonts. I would rather keep that magic alive.
- deepGem 2y ago
  I think handwriting is a very personal trait. Some people value good handwriting and they write neat even when they write fast. Others don't. Sadly, a vast majority if the world exists in the other camp. This is why they invented typewriters. If everyone conformed to good handwriting and could agree upon a good writing style standard, the world would have been very different.
  - eru 2y ago
    > This is why they invented typewriters. Historically, that didn't seem to be the main reason for the many inventions of the typewriter. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#History
    - imoverclocked 2y ago
      That wikipedia article was a great read but I have to agree with GP. > According to the standards taught in secretarial schools in the mid-20th century, a business letter was supposed to have no mistakes and no visible corrections. Certainly, there were other reasons like speed, repeatability, official-looking, etc... too. Most typewriters wanted to be cheaper and on-demand printing presses. Some even managed variable width fonts! :)
      - eru 2y ago
        Oh, the original comment is certainly right in spirit, I just wanted to be pedantic. But I'm not sure why you quote something about the md-20th century, when we are talking about the (many) invention(s) of the typewriter? They were already old and well-established technology at that point in time.
  - sfilmeyer 2y ago
    I've known people who valued good handwriting but weren't particularly capable of writing neatly, and others who didn't particularly value it but were capable of staying neat while writing quickly. I think you might be overestimating how much of it is tied to what people value.
  - solveit 2y ago
    I like good handwriting, but good, fast handwriting takes thousands of hours of practice. We used to spend a good chunk of school drilling it into kids, but now it's really hard to justify everyone spend that kind of time when we can technology our way around it and there are other valuable skills to learn.
    - imoverclocked 2y ago
      That’s the same argument for using calculators in the past 30 years and ChatGPT in the last few years. At some point, we lose far more than we gain by “technology our way around” our early development. Why bother having campfires when we have portable space heaters? Heck, why bother camping at all if we have a nice comfortable space at home? More generally, why do any of the things that connect us to our past? Personally, I think it’s important to learn by doing and then provide a “here is how we made that easier, and now you know why” type of foundation. Perhaps better is having people develop versions of those solutions for themselves so we don’t just expect someone else to solve all of our problems.
      - Neonlicht 2y ago
        If you live in an urbanised country you don't build a lot of campfires- besides there are rules on air quality that prohibit them.
recursive 2y ago
Hard to make boxes and arrows out of helvetica, and basically impossible to do it quickly
- Wowfunhappy 2y ago
  Fine, make it Helvetica plus whatever other shapes you need. I would assume that Helvetica includes most of extended unicode, since it's such a widely used font, but I could be wrong, and it's beside the point. If the computer is the one transforming your writing it should be perfectly quick. To be clear, afaik current handwriting recognition software is not good enough for this. But if we had software that could transform bad handwriting into good handwriting, why not go all the way?
  - advael 2y ago
    Cuz quality is not equivalent to standardization, and sometimes the latter is undesirable
loginx 2y ago
I got a stylus for my iPad and i felt that way at the beginning but I learned that i visualize in my head what I'm going to create right before I draw, and the difference between what's in my mind vs what gets produced is so great, that it feels like a weird uncanny valley and i hate the output.
ryukoposting 2y ago
Not necessarily - your handwriting can sometimes be subtly optimized to the sort of subject matter you write about. For example, when I write lowercase T, I give it a little hook at the bottom. I also write my lowercase L in the cursive form, the tall skinny loop. That keeps similar-looking letters that I use a lot distinct. There must be other examples.
- TRiG_Ireland 2y ago
  In my handwriting, the letter x is two crossed lines; the algebraic variable x is two Cs back-to-back. This makes it more distinct from a multiplication sign.
sam29681749 2y ago
When I'm taking notes, I use arrows, squiggly lines, symbols, I circle text, etc. which won't necessarily translate to typical text block.

There is (subjective) charm in handwritten text that is simply not present in digital fonts. I would rather keep that magic alive.

deepGem 2y ago
I think handwriting is a very personal trait. Some people value good handwriting and they write neat even when they write fast. Others don't. Sadly, a vast majority if the world exists in the other camp. This is why they invented typewriters. If everyone conformed to good handwriting and could agree upon a good writing style standard, the world would have been very different.
- eru 2y ago
  > This is why they invented typewriters. Historically, that didn't seem to be the main reason for the many inventions of the typewriter. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#History
  - imoverclocked 2y ago
    That wikipedia article was a great read but I have to agree with GP. > According to the standards taught in secretarial schools in the mid-20th century, a business letter was supposed to have no mistakes and no visible corrections. Certainly, there were other reasons like speed, repeatability, official-looking, etc... too. Most typewriters wanted to be cheaper and on-demand printing presses. Some even managed variable width fonts! :)
    - eru 2y ago
      Oh, the original comment is certainly right in spirit, I just wanted to be pedantic. But I'm not sure why you quote something about the md-20th century, when we are talking about the (many) invention(s) of the typewriter? They were already old and well-established technology at that point in time.
- sfilmeyer 2y ago
  I've known people who valued good handwriting but weren't particularly capable of writing neatly, and others who didn't particularly value it but were capable of staying neat while writing quickly. I think you might be overestimating how much of it is tied to what people value.
- solveit 2y ago
  I like good handwriting, but good, fast handwriting takes thousands of hours of practice. We used to spend a good chunk of school drilling it into kids, but now it's really hard to justify everyone spend that kind of time when we can technology our way around it and there are other valuable skills to learn.
  - imoverclocked 2y ago
    That’s the same argument for using calculators in the past 30 years and ChatGPT in the last few years. At some point, we lose far more than we gain by “technology our way around” our early development. Why bother having campfires when we have portable space heaters? Heck, why bother camping at all if we have a nice comfortable space at home? More generally, why do any of the things that connect us to our past? Personally, I think it’s important to learn by doing and then provide a “here is how we made that easier, and now you know why” type of foundation. Perhaps better is having people develop versions of those solutions for themselves so we don’t just expect someone else to solve all of our problems.
    - Neonlicht 2y ago
      If you live in an urbanised country you don't build a lot of campfires- besides there are rules on air quality that prohibit them.

recursive 2y ago

Hard to make boxes and arrows out of helvetica, and basically impossible to do it quickly

Wowfunhappy 2y ago
Fine, make it Helvetica plus whatever other shapes you need. I would assume that Helvetica includes most of extended unicode, since it's such a widely used font, but I could be wrong, and it's beside the point. If the computer is the one transforming your writing it should be perfectly quick. To be clear, afaik current handwriting recognition software is not good enough for this. But if we had software that could transform bad handwriting into good handwriting, why not go all the way?
- advael 2y ago
  Cuz quality is not equivalent to standardization, and sometimes the latter is undesirable

loginx 2y ago

I got a stylus for my iPad and i felt that way at the beginning but I learned that i visualize in my head what I'm going to create right before I draw, and the difference between what's in my mind vs what gets produced is so great, that it feels like a weird uncanny valley and i hate the output.

ryukoposting 2y ago

Not necessarily - your handwriting can sometimes be subtly optimized to the sort of subject matter you write about. For example, when I write lowercase T, I give it a little hook at the bottom. I also write my lowercase L in the cursive form, the tall skinny loop. That keeps similar-looking letters that I use a lot distinct. There must be other examples.

TRiG_Ireland 2y ago
In my handwriting, the letter x is two crossed lines; the algebraic variable x is two Cs back-to-back. This makes it more distinct from a multiplication sign.

sam29681749 2y ago

When I'm taking notes, I use arrows, squiggly lines, symbols, I circle text, etc. which won't necessarily translate to typical text block.