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You misunderstand. This is precisely the mindset that leave these men in a difficult position. They're forced to perform an adequate display of masculinity to
by consteval 2y ago
You misunderstand. This is precisely the mindset that leave these men in a difficult position.
They're forced to perform an adequate display of masculinity to please individuals such as yourself, because the moment they don't they get this sort of treatment. But performing such masculinity doesn't grant them what it used to before. So, one would think they would leave it behind!
But they don't, because you don't welcome it. They have nowhere to go. Certainly, other men won't take them into their communities. And women won't either, because such men are weak and not worth their breath. So where do they end up if they choose that path?
So naturally they don't choose that path.
The problem here is that they can't "leave behind patriarchy". That translates into dying alone still. The reality is toxic masculinity is molded not just by men, but by women. Mothers, sisters, classmates. From the moment they leave the womb, boys understand there are strict rules they must conform to.
Enforcing these rules, which you're unintentionally doing with this sort of "boohoo" mentality, is part of the reason we're in the mess. Meaning, you yourself are upholding patriarchy in ways you might not understand.
Part of deconstructing toxic masculinity and giving men a fighting chance in a progressive world is being open to listening to them and giving them the space for vulnerability. You can't do that when you're hell-bent on never listening. When in such a position, men and young boys are set up for failure. They can't perform to a level that is deemed sufficient for progressivism, but they also can't perform for a level that is deemed sufficient for women and other men.
Only a select few, who have mastered the art of perfectly performing outward masculinity while selectively dropping little kernels of progressivism, succeed.
The solution is a modern progressive movement for men, but there's huge pushback to this idea. Even the notion men don't have to conform to even surface-level gender roles, like the clothes they wear, is met with huge uproar from men and women.
I mean, just ask yourself: do you think the average progressive woman would even humor dating a heterosexual man who does drag? Do you think the average progressive woman would even humor dating a heterosexual man who splits the bill?
The answer is a resounding no. Whatever little bits of progressivism men have gotten are pretty much just side-effects from feminism and gay liberation. But just side-effects. Men still can't act feminine, and they certainly can't do anything that might get them perceived as gay.
I mean, I find another placeholder for fa*got online just about every month. Heterosexual men are sorely lacking in progressivist movements that help them and their self-identity.
- standardUser 2y ago> The solution is a modern progressive movement for men Do you have thoughts on what this should/could look like?
- consteval 2y agoI think mental healthcare might be a good place to start. Campaigns specifically targeting men's mental health, particularly more "embarrassing" ones like depression and anxiety. Show men who can't bring themselves to brush their teeth, show men sitting in their car with a revolver in their hands. That's a harsh reality that is completely silent, I think. I think we need to come to terms with men being in positions of abject "weakness" - or what we currently perceive as weakness. And we do that through visibility. Through PSAs, television shows, movies. I also think clothing would be a good place to start, just because it's so immediately obvious and visible. Get protests allowing men to wear skirts at work, and make it clear they're still men. I don't think that will fix anything really, but I think it could force the issue to be looked at.
- genewitch 2y agoyou gotta start real young and psychiatry is a soft science and so is early-childhood studies; it makes recommendations difficult to get behind. The only way to change this is cultural, seriously. We have to start now with Millennials and zoomers, and the few gen-x that aren't calcified in their own trauma - start by making therapy better sounding. Less "tissues and issues" and more "neutral third party that will be honest about reflections on what you've said / contemplated." I hope this makes sense - right now, seeking mental health help has a stigma. It's strange to go to the equivalent of a doctor and spend 45 minutes talking. Can you trust them? How open should you be? Are they judging you, and will that color their dialogue? Seriously, how open should you be? Once we have a generation of parents that have benefited from therapy, when they see their child having an issue, they can now reach for the therapy route in addition to dr spock. Having good experiences with therapy in your formative years will make you more likely to seek similar experiences as an adult. Who knows, it's all flimsy.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago