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> Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure

by znpy 2y ago

> Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure that's the right way to read that. if you cut out the extremes (of the content Gaussian) you see that much content geared towards GenZ males is of self-care nature: go to the gym, take care of your own body, avoid alcohol and other drugs, take care of your mental health and go to therapy if you can, read philosophy. it's a beautiful change since i was a teenager (~15 years ago), way much healthier than what i was exposed to as a teenager. it's not problems-free of course, but still, i view it as positive change.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.
- consteval 2y ago
  From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.
- znpy 2y ago
  > Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do want to say that we're much more aware of mental health issue than we were 10 years ago. I was quite depressed myself as a teenager, yet it was just a common thing to "man up" and don't express that. Current teenagers might be more open about what's going on in their head, and i think it's beautiful. I think it's one of those issues that we used to ignore in the past, and now that we don't do that anymore, we're perceiving it as an new emergency. But it's not "new".
ndriscoll 2y ago
Note that the person you replied to did not say it was a negative change; they said they're adopting more conservative attitudes. I don't think what you said actually disagrees with them. While niches like straightedge exist, at least in the US today, the vibe I get is that things like temperance/abstinence and self-improvement (especially of one's body) are usually conservative-coded in the mainstream.

by znpy 2y ago

s1artibartfast 2y ago

Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.

consteval 2y ago
From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.
znpy 2y ago
> Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do want to say that we're much more aware of mental health issue than we were 10 years ago. I was quite depressed myself as a teenager, yet it was just a common thing to "man up" and don't express that. Current teenagers might be more open about what's going on in their head, and i think it's beautiful. I think it's one of those issues that we used to ignore in the past, and now that we don't do that anymore, we're perceiving it as an new emergency. But it's not "new".

ndriscoll 2y ago

Note that the person you replied to did not say it was a negative change; they said they're adopting more conservative attitudes. I don't think what you said actually disagrees with them. While niches like straightedge exist, at least in the US today, the vibe I get is that things like temperance/abstinence and self-improvement (especially of one's body) are usually conservative-coded in the mainstream.