4 ms·

Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol.

znpy 2y ago
> Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure that's the right way to read that. if you cut out the extremes (of the content Gaussian) you see that much content geared towards GenZ males is of self-care nature: go to the gym, take care of your own body, avoid alcohol and other drugs, take care of your mental health and go to therapy if you can, read philosophy. it's a beautiful change since i was a teenager (~15 years ago), way much healthier than what i was exposed to as a teenager. it's not problems-free of course, but still, i view it as positive change.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.
  - consteval 2y ago
    From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.
  - znpy 2y ago
    > Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do want to say that we're much more aware of mental health issue than we were 10 years ago. I was quite depressed myself as a teenager, yet it was just a common thing to "man up" and don't express that. Current teenagers might be more open about what's going on in their head, and i think it's beautiful. I think it's one of those issues that we used to ignore in the past, and now that we don't do that anymore, we're perceiving it as an new emergency. But it's not "new".
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  Note that the person you replied to did not say it was a negative change; they said they're adopting more conservative attitudes. I don't think what you said actually disagrees with them. While niches like straightedge exist, at least in the US today, the vibe I get is that things like temperance/abstinence and self-improvement (especially of one's body) are usually conservative-coded in the mainstream.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
The modern american conservative movement is becoming decoupled from the practice of evangelical christianity (which is the origin of republican teetotaling) even as it becomes more closely aligned with its policy goals. So I'm not sure I'd expect to see this connection hold with young conservatives. It might though, but I can't find anything reputable looking at it directly.
Der_Einzige 2y ago
The downvotes you experience from making a super obvious connection is indicative of why democrats have a real risk of losing this election. The inability to sense the collapse in support for democrats among young men of all types (especially strong among black/latino young men) is why democrats seem to be structurally unable to win over any kind of non traditional voting groups en mass. Left leaning folks have also been sticking their head in the sand about the rapid evangalization/anti-catholic reaction that is sweeping through American latino communities right now. I am witnessing this both among personal friends and again and again in the news/sociological articles. Democrats are reacting to this by trying to move to the right on immigration. It's not working, and we are doomed as a result.
- standardUser 2y ago
  I broadly agree with the assessment, but I don't think there's an obvious solution. There is only so far the left-leaning half of this country is willing to compromise with the increasingly less-educated, hyper-masculine right side. And while the right side may (barely) have the numbers to stay politically competitive, it's also the side rapidly losing out in terms of education, wealth and status. Backlashes can stall the broader trends, but they generally don't reverse them.
  - DrPimienta 2y ago
    They could start by trying anything at all. For instance, addressing the issue of homeless veterans is far more important than prostrating themselves to trans special interest groups.

znpy 2y ago

> Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure that's the right way to read that. if you cut out the extremes (of the content Gaussian) you see that much content geared towards GenZ males is of self-care nature: go to the gym, take care of your own body, avoid alcohol and other drugs, take care of your mental health and go to therapy if you can, read philosophy. it's a beautiful change since i was a teenager (~15 years ago), way much healthier than what i was exposed to as a teenager. it's not problems-free of course, but still, i view it as positive change.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.
- consteval 2y ago
  From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.
- znpy 2y ago
  > Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do want to say that we're much more aware of mental health issue than we were 10 years ago. I was quite depressed myself as a teenager, yet it was just a common thing to "man up" and don't express that. Current teenagers might be more open about what's going on in their head, and i think it's beautiful. I think it's one of those issues that we used to ignore in the past, and now that we don't do that anymore, we're perceiving it as an new emergency. But it's not "new".
ndriscoll 2y ago
Note that the person you replied to did not say it was a negative change; they said they're adopting more conservative attitudes. I don't think what you said actually disagrees with them. While niches like straightedge exist, at least in the US today, the vibe I get is that things like temperance/abstinence and self-improvement (especially of one's body) are usually conservative-coded in the mainstream.

giraffe_lady 2y ago

The modern american conservative movement is becoming decoupled from the practice of evangelical christianity (which is the origin of republican teetotaling) even as it becomes more closely aligned with its policy goals. So I'm not sure I'd expect to see this connection hold with young conservatives. It might though, but I can't find anything reputable looking at it directly.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

The downvotes you experience from making a super obvious connection is indicative of why democrats have a real risk of losing this election. The inability to sense the collapse in support for democrats among young men of all types (especially strong among black/latino young men) is why democrats seem to be structurally unable to win over any kind of non traditional voting groups en mass. Left leaning folks have also been sticking their head in the sand about the rapid evangalization/anti-catholic reaction that is sweeping through American latino communities right now. I am witnessing this both among personal friends and again and again in the news/sociological articles. Democrats are reacting to this by trying to move to the right on immigration. It's not working, and we are doomed as a result.

standardUser 2y ago
I broadly agree with the assessment, but I don't think there's an obvious solution. There is only so far the left-leaning half of this country is willing to compromise with the increasingly less-educated, hyper-masculine right side. And while the right side may (barely) have the numbers to stay politically competitive, it's also the side rapidly losing out in terms of education, wealth and status. Backlashes can stall the broader trends, but they generally don't reverse them.
- DrPimienta 2y ago
  They could start by trying anything at all. For instance, addressing the issue of homeless veterans is far more important than prostrating themselves to trans special interest groups.