5 ms·

It's frustrating how disposable these are designed to be edit: e.g. screen replacements cost nearly as much as the entire computer

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aqme28 2y ago
Are you expected to replace your screen often? I don't think I upgrade and replace either one much faster than the other. Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years.
- mullsork 2y ago
  > Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years. Maybe you're not quite the average consumer that OP has in mind? Maybe you are, I don't know. Either way it's unsustainable and ridiculous that the _average consumer_ would need to replace something after 4 years when it COULD be built to last.
  - Daz1 2y ago
    They are built to last. I'm typing this comment on a 2015 MacBook Pro.
  - hatsix 2y ago
    My first LCD monitor is still actively used in our house, about 18 years old now. My mother has gone through several computers, kept the same screen for 15 years. Apple Consumers are not "Average Consumers". Starting at $1300, it's a luxury desktop.
    - acdha 2y ago
      That’s a mid-range desktop at most in a world where people pay more than that for individual components at the high-end, especially when you look at pricing for equivalent quality displays. The correct criticism of iMacs is that it links two parts with different lifespans. There should be a legal requirement that all-in-one computers have an external connector so that if some other component fails or simply becomes obsolete you can use the perfectly functional display with another system.
      - hatsix 2y ago
        I agree that the iMac needs to be usable as a monitor. Both Dell and HP all-in-ones that I looked at do this (I did not do an exhaustive search, so it may not be as common as my 'look at two' makes it sound, but it's not UN-common) However, let's be real clear, iMac is not a mid-range desktop, price-wise. Amazon's all-in-one category's HIGHEST non-apple price in the top-10 is $599. There are three non-apple all-in-ones over $1k in the top-50. [1] Obviously, once we separate the pieces out, things become even more clear cut. You can buy the beefiest "mini-pc" from amazon and pair it with a 28" or 32", flat or curved 4k monitor for $200-400 and still have money left over. The iMac is NOT high-end, but it is luxury, and that's an important distinction. 1: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-All-in-One-Computers/zgbs/electronics/13896603011/ref=zg_bs_nav_electronics_4_565098 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-All-in-One-C...
        acdha 2y ago
        My point was just that while it’s not low-end it’s also not luxury in a world unless you’re defining that term to mean something like “has clean lines without stickers” or “has a better display than a TV from a decade ago”. Most of the cost of an iMac is the display and as your example shows, you don’t see significant savings unless you accept massive compromises on quality. 1080p FHDs is like saying you have a luxury car because your baseline is a golf cart and most of those have terrible color quality according to their spec sheets even if you ignore the low resolution. By the time you’re getting to models which are only one generation behind on CPU you’re looking at a $900 system with a display which is worse than what Apple shipped almost 20 years ago.
  - fastball 2y ago
    That wasn't their point. The point is that the average consumer doesn't really upgrade their desktop separately from their screen, if the two are separate. You do not need to replace an iMac after 4 years, they are in fact built to last.
- orangecat 2y ago
  I made the mistake of getting a 27" iMac in 2014. The 5k display is still great by today's standards but the internals are obsolete.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  Well.. no. But if it breaks or is damaged you basically have to throw away (the otherwise) fully functional PC.
- stackskipton 2y ago
  Most people I know who don't use laptop exclusively don't replace their monitors that often. My work docking station is still rocking 2017 4k monitors and my wife home setup is similar.
mjlee 2y ago
Especially egregious when you consider older iMacs could be used as external displays - https://support.apple.com/en-gb/105126 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/105126
- Teever 2y ago
  I'd love to see a regulator mandate that computers like the iMac that have built in screens must have HDMI ports that allow them to be used as monitors. This would be great for the consumer and prevent a lot of ewaste as people can use obsolete computers as monitors well past their useful lifespan as a monitor.
  - SahAssar 2y ago
    HDMI might be a bit more complex, but displayport should be doable since most devices use embedded displayport (eDP) anyway for their built in displays. I'm guessing the main cost would be adding a switching chip for switching between external and internal source.
  - magarnicle 2y ago
    Even laptops?
  - capitol_ 2y ago
    HDMI is really not a very good choice as they try to block open source implementations: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no... It should be kept out of regulations.
    - anticensor 2y ago
      This is why we need a standard that has both HDMI and DP connector options, but DP signalling.
- laurencerowe 2y ago
  While it is a shame it was never brought back, at the time it was removed it was unavoidable since the bandwidth required for 5k was beyond what could be carried across a single display port cable.
whitehexagon 2y ago
yeah I have an older model that had the well documented faulty / fragile screen connector for the LED back lights. Very expensive replacement screen was the recommended fix! all for the sake of a tiny six pin connector. One of these days I'll split it down and see if my hands are still steady enough to solder on a new connector. Anyway it was enough to swear me off any all-in-one devices ever again. I thought by now we'd be fully modular with desktop computer hardware.
js2 2y ago
I commented elsewhere, but my uncle is on his third iMac in 30 years. He keeps them a decade at a time. My father is still using an Intel iMac. Normal people do not upgrade their computers after purchase. Displays are generally not something that fail. These machines are capable of providing a decade or more of service to normal people.
- IndrekR 2y ago
  First iMac was released in 1998.
  - js2 2y ago
    I rounded too aggressively. His first iMac was the G4 on a stalk (2002). The second was one of the aluminum pre-Retina Intel models, perhaps 2012. He just purchased his third earlier this year. So, three iMacs in 22 years, but I expect him to keep this one for at least a decade too, at least 5 years, so that will get him to three iMacs in 27 years at minimum.
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    Whether you say 26 years or 30 years is really not the main point here, that's just splitting hairs.
ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
My last iMac lasted 10-years. I replaced it with the M3 iMac for my daughter. I will be happy if it takes her through High School graduation in 2030. If the M3 iMac is still running, I expect to use it for some intro to computer stuff for one of the younger kids. Yes I cannot mine the iMac for parts at EOL, but realistically, I haven't really done that on any tower-based PC either.
robotresearcher 2y ago
I bet iMacs are some of the longest-average-lifetime computers out there. But I’m sad that the 27” models are obsolete computers and still-wonderful screens, and Apple removed the use-as-screen mode.
- kruxigt 2y ago
  [dead]
- VogonPoetry 2y ago
  That feature was available and only possible with specific Intel chips. It went away because Intel stopped supporting it. Sad the feature didn't come back to life in the AppleSilicon iMac.
  - philistine 2y ago
    Their display stack on Apple Silicon is still maturing. It took way too long for them to support more than a single external display. I bet you it's due for a comeback in the next decade.
- lobsterthief 2y ago
  My father-in-law just replaced his daily iMac because _Chrome_ finally stopped providing security updates for part of his hardware architecture.
ascorbic 2y ago
I bought an iMac in 2011 that I had for 12 years before it died. I replaced the HD with an SSD after a few years but otherwise it just kept on going.
theshrike79 2y ago
When was the last time a display failed on you without getting physically damaged? The last display I had break down was a CRT piece of shit I got off my school's auction a quarter century ago.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

aqme28 2y ago

Are you expected to replace your screen often? I don't think I upgrade and replace either one much faster than the other. Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years.

mullsork 2y ago
> Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years. Maybe you're not quite the average consumer that OP has in mind? Maybe you are, I don't know. Either way it's unsustainable and ridiculous that the _average consumer_ would need to replace something after 4 years when it COULD be built to last.
- Daz1 2y ago
  They are built to last. I'm typing this comment on a 2015 MacBook Pro.
- hatsix 2y ago
  My first LCD monitor is still actively used in our house, about 18 years old now. My mother has gone through several computers, kept the same screen for 15 years. Apple Consumers are not "Average Consumers". Starting at $1300, it's a luxury desktop.
  - acdha 2y ago
    That’s a mid-range desktop at most in a world where people pay more than that for individual components at the high-end, especially when you look at pricing for equivalent quality displays. The correct criticism of iMacs is that it links two parts with different lifespans. There should be a legal requirement that all-in-one computers have an external connector so that if some other component fails or simply becomes obsolete you can use the perfectly functional display with another system.
    - hatsix 2y ago
      I agree that the iMac needs to be usable as a monitor. Both Dell and HP all-in-ones that I looked at do this (I did not do an exhaustive search, so it may not be as common as my 'look at two' makes it sound, but it's not UN-common) However, let's be real clear, iMac is not a mid-range desktop, price-wise. Amazon's all-in-one category's HIGHEST non-apple price in the top-10 is $599. There are three non-apple all-in-ones over $1k in the top-50. [1] Obviously, once we separate the pieces out, things become even more clear cut. You can buy the beefiest "mini-pc" from amazon and pair it with a 28" or 32", flat or curved 4k monitor for $200-400 and still have money left over. The iMac is NOT high-end, but it is luxury, and that's an important distinction. 1: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-All-in-One-Computers/zgbs/electronics/13896603011/ref=zg_bs_nav_electronics_4_565098 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-All-in-One-C...
      - acdha 2y ago
        My point was just that while it’s not low-end it’s also not luxury in a world unless you’re defining that term to mean something like “has clean lines without stickers” or “has a better display than a TV from a decade ago”. Most of the cost of an iMac is the display and as your example shows, you don’t see significant savings unless you accept massive compromises on quality. 1080p FHDs is like saying you have a luxury car because your baseline is a golf cart and most of those have terrible color quality according to their spec sheets even if you ignore the low resolution. By the time you’re getting to models which are only one generation behind on CPU you’re looking at a $900 system with a display which is worse than what Apple shipped almost 20 years ago.
- fastball 2y ago
  That wasn't their point. The point is that the average consumer doesn't really upgrade their desktop separately from their screen, if the two are separate. You do not need to replace an iMac after 4 years, they are in fact built to last.
orangecat 2y ago
I made the mistake of getting a 27" iMac in 2014. The 5k display is still great by today's standards but the internals are obsolete.
Wytwwww 2y ago
Well.. no. But if it breaks or is damaged you basically have to throw away (the otherwise) fully functional PC.
stackskipton 2y ago
Most people I know who don't use laptop exclusively don't replace their monitors that often. My work docking station is still rocking 2017 4k monitors and my wife home setup is similar.

mjlee 2y ago

Especially egregious when you consider older iMacs could be used as external displays - https://support.apple.com/en-gb/105126 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/105126

Teever 2y ago
I'd love to see a regulator mandate that computers like the iMac that have built in screens must have HDMI ports that allow them to be used as monitors. This would be great for the consumer and prevent a lot of ewaste as people can use obsolete computers as monitors well past their useful lifespan as a monitor.
- SahAssar 2y ago
  HDMI might be a bit more complex, but displayport should be doable since most devices use embedded displayport (eDP) anyway for their built in displays. I'm guessing the main cost would be adding a switching chip for switching between external and internal source.
- magarnicle 2y ago
  Even laptops?
- capitol_ 2y ago
  HDMI is really not a very good choice as they try to block open source implementations: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no... It should be kept out of regulations.
  - anticensor 2y ago
    This is why we need a standard that has both HDMI and DP connector options, but DP signalling.
laurencerowe 2y ago
While it is a shame it was never brought back, at the time it was removed it was unavoidable since the bandwidth required for 5k was beyond what could be carried across a single display port cable.

whitehexagon 2y ago

yeah I have an older model that had the well documented faulty / fragile screen connector for the LED back lights. Very expensive replacement screen was the recommended fix! all for the sake of a tiny six pin connector. One of these days I'll split it down and see if my hands are still steady enough to solder on a new connector. Anyway it was enough to swear me off any all-in-one devices ever again. I thought by now we'd be fully modular with desktop computer hardware.

js2 2y ago

I commented elsewhere, but my uncle is on his third iMac in 30 years. He keeps them a decade at a time. My father is still using an Intel iMac. Normal people do not upgrade their computers after purchase. Displays are generally not something that fail. These machines are capable of providing a decade or more of service to normal people.

IndrekR 2y ago
First iMac was released in 1998.
- js2 2y ago
  I rounded too aggressively. His first iMac was the G4 on a stalk (2002). The second was one of the aluminum pre-Retina Intel models, perhaps 2012. He just purchased his third earlier this year. So, three iMacs in 22 years, but I expect him to keep this one for at least a decade too, at least 5 years, so that will get him to three iMacs in 27 years at minimum.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Whether you say 26 years or 30 years is really not the main point here, that's just splitting hairs.

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago

My last iMac lasted 10-years. I replaced it with the M3 iMac for my daughter. I will be happy if it takes her through High School graduation in 2030. If the M3 iMac is still running, I expect to use it for some intro to computer stuff for one of the younger kids. Yes I cannot mine the iMac for parts at EOL, but realistically, I haven't really done that on any tower-based PC either.

robotresearcher 2y ago

I bet iMacs are some of the longest-average-lifetime computers out there. But I’m sad that the 27” models are obsolete computers and still-wonderful screens, and Apple removed the use-as-screen mode.

kruxigt 2y ago
[dead]
VogonPoetry 2y ago
That feature was available and only possible with specific Intel chips. It went away because Intel stopped supporting it. Sad the feature didn't come back to life in the AppleSilicon iMac.
- philistine 2y ago
  Their display stack on Apple Silicon is still maturing. It took way too long for them to support more than a single external display. I bet you it's due for a comeback in the next decade.
lobsterthief 2y ago
My father-in-law just replaced his daily iMac because _Chrome_ finally stopped providing security updates for part of his hardware architecture.

ascorbic 2y ago

I bought an iMac in 2011 that I had for 12 years before it died. I replaced the HD with an SSD after a few years but otherwise it just kept on going.

theshrike79 2y ago

When was the last time a display failed on you without getting physically damaged? The last display I had break down was a CRT piece of shit I got off my school's auction a quarter century ago.