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I think all this does is illustrate how ridiculous US export controls are, and how hypocritical the West's stance vis-a-vis China is. First, the idiocy of the

I think all this does is illustrate how ridiculous US export controls are, and how hypocritical the West's stance vis-a-vis China is. First, the idiocy of the export controls: maybe they made some sense when the US was a sole source for certain technologies, but right now, the US is not even the leading technological power in many fields in which it insists on export controls, let alone the sole supplier. If Turbomeca is standing in line to supply China with engines with FADEC, which can be put on civilian or military helicopters as China wishes, then what do these export controls do, other than impose paperwork and misery on anyone who is dealing with any US supplier? Not to mention that China will shortly be producing these engines by itself. Second, the hypocrisy: look, either the West can decide that the Chinese regime is evil, and refuse to do business with it, or it can do a trillion dollars a year worth of import/export with China, and stop trying to hide behind the microscopic fig leaf of not allowing military exports. With the world rushing to sell any piece of technology to China in order to counterbalance the Chinese exports, and with China being more than sophisticated enough to adapt technology for military use, this is fooling no one.

drewcrawford 14y ago
> then what do these export controls do, other than impose paperwork and misery on anyone who is dealing with any US supplier? They make the French supplier the only supplier, granting them a monopoly and making it impossible for china to source the parts at current market rates. Do you know how difficult it is to get ordinary, commonly-available stuff shipped to your door in a friendly country like Saudi Arabia? Think about that hassle, but on a governmental level. It's not a national security goal. It's a diplomacy goal. Now it's fine to ask whether or not private US companies should be roped into doing the state department's dirty work, of course, but that's a different conversation.
raintrees 14y ago
And yet my first take-away from the article is that this seems to be another example of profits being more important than anything or anyone else. To me, it seems to be similar to decisions like the profits from the installation and operation of a dam in certain localities is more important than the heritage/sustainability/subsistence of the local indigenous population that had been living in the now flooded valleys for many (in some cases thousands?) of years. Or getting some return on stockpiles of chemicals that are illegal in one country by selling them to a country where they are not yet illegal. The reason they were made illegal usually being damage to ecosystems/humans/animals/whatever not as important than the almighty unit of currency. I kind of knew I was going to be depressed by reading Jerry Mander's The Capitalism Papers... Gotta pay more attention to my instincts. Sigh.
yk 14y ago
France has export controls too [1], as most of the G20 [2]. However I do not believe that the entire export control regime is flawed, since it is primarily designed to prevent proliferation to less sophisticated countries who have to buy entire weapon systems. In the case of china these controls do not work well, since China can also integrate dual-use goods themselves. [1] http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france-priorities/disarmament-arms-control/arms-control-and-arms-trade/export-control-the-instrument-for/war-material-export-control/ http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france-priorities/disarmame... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement

drewcrawford 14y ago

> then what do these export controls do, other than impose paperwork and misery on anyone who is dealing with any US supplier? They make the French supplier the only supplier, granting them a monopoly and making it impossible for china to source the parts at current market rates. Do you know how difficult it is to get ordinary, commonly-available stuff shipped to your door in a friendly country like Saudi Arabia? Think about that hassle, but on a governmental level. It's not a national security goal. It's a diplomacy goal. Now it's fine to ask whether or not private US companies should be roped into doing the state department's dirty work, of course, but that's a different conversation.

raintrees 14y ago

And yet my first take-away from the article is that this seems to be another example of profits being more important than anything or anyone else. To me, it seems to be similar to decisions like the profits from the installation and operation of a dam in certain localities is more important than the heritage/sustainability/subsistence of the local indigenous population that had been living in the now flooded valleys for many (in some cases thousands?) of years. Or getting some return on stockpiles of chemicals that are illegal in one country by selling them to a country where they are not yet illegal. The reason they were made illegal usually being damage to ecosystems/humans/animals/whatever not as important than the almighty unit of currency. I kind of knew I was going to be depressed by reading Jerry Mander's The Capitalism Papers... Gotta pay more attention to my instincts. Sigh.

yk 14y ago

France has export controls too [1], as most of the G20 [2]. However I do not believe that the entire export control regime is flawed, since it is primarily designed to prevent proliferation to less sophisticated countries who have to buy entire weapon systems. In the case of china these controls do not work well, since China can also integrate dual-use goods themselves. [1] http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france-priorities/disarmament-arms-control/arms-control-and-arms-trade/export-control-the-instrument-for/war-material-export-control/ http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france-priorities/disarmame... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement