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If anything, the players slapping each other on the ass cheering each other on as they lose game after game seems like the problem here. Not criticism from fans

If anything, the players slapping each other on the ass cheering each other on as they lose game after game seems like the problem here. Not criticism from fans. Maybe they could pick one sport -- archiving things -- and focus on that for a while? https://ncua.gov/newsroom/press-release/2016/internet-archive-federal-credit-union-pays-ncua-insured-members-shares-full https://ncua.gov/newsroom/press-release/2016/internet-archiv... https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/internet-archive-major-label-music-lawsuit-1235105273/ https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/internet-a...

mmooss 2y ago
They rely very heavily on public support, politically and financially. You're participating in a public pile-on, which absolutely can damage them. > Maybe they could pick one sport -- archiving things -- and focus on that for a while? Archiving them without sharing them? What's the point? Certainly that's not their mission. They've been very successful with multiple projects; it's also part of pushing the envelope - part of their mission - politically, socially, and technologically. Innovative organizations have a lot failures. I think they are doing great, except for the emergency lending library, and one mistake isn't IMHO you and others are just finding fault, joining in on the sport of piling on. This is your team, and the IA is a critical resource and not, at all, a sport. Instead of treating it like one (I know the metaphor was my idea, but that's how people seem to treat it), we'd better fight for it if we want it. Who will stand up for it if not you? While you are playing social sports, who else is out there to save IA?
- badlibrarian 2y ago
  Most archives require you to visit in person. It's annoying to tech people, but there are many reasons for it that extend beyond the obvious copyright issues that Internet Archive keeps tripping over. One is that given limited resources and the endless amount of material to conserve, archive, digitize, and develop metadata for so that people in the future can even find it, things like "let's start our own financial institution" and "let's pick a fight over 78 RPM records where even Lessig says we'll probably be sued for 25x our annual budget" tend not to come up in preservation organizations. Likewise cool ideas like "how about we let the general public post comments on albums and videos and even let them post links" tend to get shot down as archivists have better things to do than police porn spam all day. Archiving sucks and is expensive and thankless so of course they want to be a library, too. Unfortunately to do so means you have to understand and follow the rules. Making copyrighted books, video game ROMS, and the most popular song of all time downloadable while asking for donations isn't how it's done. Again, things like "Let's make Donkey Kong playable in a web browser hosted at our domain" does not normally come up in discussions at libraries. It's a bunch of well-intentioned kids and I love them for it, but enough already. It's a failed experiment. Fix the strategy, put a grownup in charge of the thing, and they'll find financial support from individuals and institutions far easier to come by.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > It's a failed experiment. Failed? Because one project went wrong? They are incredibly successful - one large success after another, and they archive more and make more available to the public than any other 'archive'. Maybe those other questions don't come up for traditional archivists, but IA delivered. The idea that archives should sit inaccessible to the public is bizarre, I think, to everyone but (some?) archivists. It's easy to sit back and criticize others. They delivered. I use IA all the time.
    - badlibrarian 2y ago
      The primary duty of an archive is to protect and preserve materials. A library has a different set of responsibilities and requirements. Over the years Archive.org turned into a catch-all for Brewster's increasingly wacky projects and I must be looking at different data because I don't see a lot of wins. And since the various efforts aren't particularly related in risk or goals, perhaps they should be structured and run in a fashion so that one effort couldn't destroy the others. And foremost that the archival materials are safe. IA is a great resource but frankly the breadth is tiny compared to what's out there in the real world. Their jewels (and what seems like should be their expertise) is the web crawl but even that is a mess. Meanwhile you may want to familiarize yourself with what's out there in the real world: https://www.archives.gov/about/info/national-archives-by-the-numbers https://www.archives.gov/about/info/national-archives-by-the... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_archives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_archives
      - mmooss 2y ago
        > The primary duty of an archive is to protect and preserve materials. A library has a different set of responsibilities and requirements. I think their name is confusing to a professional, perhaps. Here's IA's mission: https://archive.org/about/ https://archive.org/about/ "The Internet Archive ... is building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form. Like a paper library, we provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, people with print disabilities, and the general public. Our mission is to provide Universal Access to All Knowledge." So they think of themselves as a library. Regardless, they are what they are. It doesn't matter what other institutions do.

mmooss 2y ago

They rely very heavily on public support, politically and financially. You're participating in a public pile-on, which absolutely can damage them. > Maybe they could pick one sport -- archiving things -- and focus on that for a while? Archiving them without sharing them? What's the point? Certainly that's not their mission. They've been very successful with multiple projects; it's also part of pushing the envelope - part of their mission - politically, socially, and technologically. Innovative organizations have a lot failures. I think they are doing great, except for the emergency lending library, and one mistake isn't IMHO you and others are just finding fault, joining in on the sport of piling on. This is your team, and the IA is a critical resource and not, at all, a sport. Instead of treating it like one (I know the metaphor was my idea, but that's how people seem to treat it), we'd better fight for it if we want it. Who will stand up for it if not you? While you are playing social sports, who else is out there to save IA?

badlibrarian 2y ago
Most archives require you to visit in person. It's annoying to tech people, but there are many reasons for it that extend beyond the obvious copyright issues that Internet Archive keeps tripping over. One is that given limited resources and the endless amount of material to conserve, archive, digitize, and develop metadata for so that people in the future can even find it, things like "let's start our own financial institution" and "let's pick a fight over 78 RPM records where even Lessig says we'll probably be sued for 25x our annual budget" tend not to come up in preservation organizations. Likewise cool ideas like "how about we let the general public post comments on albums and videos and even let them post links" tend to get shot down as archivists have better things to do than police porn spam all day. Archiving sucks and is expensive and thankless so of course they want to be a library, too. Unfortunately to do so means you have to understand and follow the rules. Making copyrighted books, video game ROMS, and the most popular song of all time downloadable while asking for donations isn't how it's done. Again, things like "Let's make Donkey Kong playable in a web browser hosted at our domain" does not normally come up in discussions at libraries. It's a bunch of well-intentioned kids and I love them for it, but enough already. It's a failed experiment. Fix the strategy, put a grownup in charge of the thing, and they'll find financial support from individuals and institutions far easier to come by.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > It's a failed experiment. Failed? Because one project went wrong? They are incredibly successful - one large success after another, and they archive more and make more available to the public than any other 'archive'. Maybe those other questions don't come up for traditional archivists, but IA delivered. The idea that archives should sit inaccessible to the public is bizarre, I think, to everyone but (some?) archivists. It's easy to sit back and criticize others. They delivered. I use IA all the time.
  - badlibrarian 2y ago
    The primary duty of an archive is to protect and preserve materials. A library has a different set of responsibilities and requirements. Over the years Archive.org turned into a catch-all for Brewster's increasingly wacky projects and I must be looking at different data because I don't see a lot of wins. And since the various efforts aren't particularly related in risk or goals, perhaps they should be structured and run in a fashion so that one effort couldn't destroy the others. And foremost that the archival materials are safe. IA is a great resource but frankly the breadth is tiny compared to what's out there in the real world. Their jewels (and what seems like should be their expertise) is the web crawl but even that is a mess. Meanwhile you may want to familiarize yourself with what's out there in the real world: https://www.archives.gov/about/info/national-archives-by-the-numbers https://www.archives.gov/about/info/national-archives-by-the... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_archives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_archives
    - mmooss 2y ago
      > The primary duty of an archive is to protect and preserve materials. A library has a different set of responsibilities and requirements. I think their name is confusing to a professional, perhaps. Here's IA's mission: https://archive.org/about/ https://archive.org/about/ "The Internet Archive ... is building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form. Like a paper library, we provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, people with print disabilities, and the general public. Our mission is to provide Universal Access to All Knowledge." So they think of themselves as a library. Regardless, they are what they are. It doesn't matter what other institutions do.