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I think it’s a newer culture pushed by the media and universities to accept scientific claims without questioning them. They usually cite whatever they say with

I think it’s a newer culture pushed by the media and universities to accept scientific claims without questioning them. They usually cite whatever they say without evidence. What a scientific consensus or even unnamed scientist say can be used to dismiss others’ points. It’s almost like they’re the clergy of today. Some are calling this “scientism.” We need to go back to treating any claims with healthy skepticism, reviewing them, and phrasing things carefully to show the degree of certainty uncertainty involved. We need to protect the integrity of both science and scientific reporting. That’s better for us in the long-term.

shadowmanifold 2y ago
There is a problem too that scientism has a dual meaning. There is the belief in science as the best means to get at the truth and then the pejorative of using science as a type of orthodox religion. So for the true believer in the pejorative you can't even use the term. Personally, I think this is a lost cause. Scientism in the pejorative sense is a new religion and most likely we are at the very early stages. Even when it comes to lifting weights, every youtube video pretends to be "based on science". I might be too old to see it happen but I fully expect at some point in the future instead of a movie getting 5 stars, the commercial will say this is scientifically proven to be great movie. A restaurant will claim to have the best tacos based on science. This is clearly the road we are on and I don't see a way back. Actual scientist will have to be more and more certain in their language because that is what scientism in the pejorative sense is to the true believer and the cult of the true believer in pejorative scientism is growing. "SCIENCE IS REAL"
- _yb2s 2y ago
  As a scientist this stuff irks me more than the openly anti-science people- because it deprives science of the whole point- to be able to question and understand things yourself. I dislike how every food item, exercise, etc. is now “scientifically proven to be optimal.” And if you look at the actual research it will show that some biomarker was higher in some comparison… but who is to say having that higher is better, and that they were actually measuring the only relevant factor out of thousands of possibilities to measure? We simply don't know nearly enough about biology to measure one biomarker and conclude that it proves something is "optimal" for the health of every member of an entire species of complicated organisms over their entire lives. If I'm going to lift weights I don't care how it modulated some level of some immunological molecule the authors were studying because it's what they happened to get funded to measure- I just care if when other people tried it if they got stronger, and didn't get hurt... something I can learn from word of mouth rather than peer reviewed literature. And you will get called “anti science” if you question it… as if questioning things that don’t make sense wasn’t the main point of science. /rant
tubalcain 2y ago
People misinterpret science as being a collection of facts discovered by authority figures rather than a process of questioning the validity of any claims made. It's almost as if the concept of science has turned into the religion of the atheist. Unquestionable, and dictated by more holy figures than them, in the form of scientists, and in some cases politicians, rather than clergy.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  I can see how they came to see it this way, since that is how science was taught to me in public school... I only knew better because both of my parents were scientists, and I grew up helping them with their research. I think that could be changed by changing how science is taught: give people the tools to experiment and reason, and figure out an answer on their own. I'd like to see more kids volunteering to work with real scientists, and see what the work is like firsthand. These science-as-religion people often attack me online, and in real life when I share my own ideas... and then back down and flip almost to some creepy worship when they figure out I'm an academic PI. No reasoning or evidence can convince them of anything, but credentials instantly do. I'd like to explain to them- as an officially ordained "science priest" with the degree and job title- that believing things based on authority rather than understanding yourself is the most heinous blasphemy possible. /s
  - tubalcain 2y ago
    Maybe that's why people are like that, but I think it's more baked into most people than we care to admit. I think part of our human wiring is to have faith. It used to be in deities, now it is in "science!" Humans, most of them anyway, are also wired to follow authority blindly. I really don't think there's any way around it. It's not that people refuse to be skeptical, it's that they are probably incapable of it.

shadowmanifold 2y ago

There is a problem too that scientism has a dual meaning. There is the belief in science as the best means to get at the truth and then the pejorative of using science as a type of orthodox religion. So for the true believer in the pejorative you can't even use the term. Personally, I think this is a lost cause. Scientism in the pejorative sense is a new religion and most likely we are at the very early stages. Even when it comes to lifting weights, every youtube video pretends to be "based on science". I might be too old to see it happen but I fully expect at some point in the future instead of a movie getting 5 stars, the commercial will say this is scientifically proven to be great movie. A restaurant will claim to have the best tacos based on science. This is clearly the road we are on and I don't see a way back. Actual scientist will have to be more and more certain in their language because that is what scientism in the pejorative sense is to the true believer and the cult of the true believer in pejorative scientism is growing. "SCIENCE IS REAL"

_yb2s 2y ago
As a scientist this stuff irks me more than the openly anti-science people- because it deprives science of the whole point- to be able to question and understand things yourself. I dislike how every food item, exercise, etc. is now “scientifically proven to be optimal.” And if you look at the actual research it will show that some biomarker was higher in some comparison… but who is to say having that higher is better, and that they were actually measuring the only relevant factor out of thousands of possibilities to measure? We simply don't know nearly enough about biology to measure one biomarker and conclude that it proves something is "optimal" for the health of every member of an entire species of complicated organisms over their entire lives. If I'm going to lift weights I don't care how it modulated some level of some immunological molecule the authors were studying because it's what they happened to get funded to measure- I just care if when other people tried it if they got stronger, and didn't get hurt... something I can learn from word of mouth rather than peer reviewed literature. And you will get called “anti science” if you question it… as if questioning things that don’t make sense wasn’t the main point of science. /rant

tubalcain 2y ago

People misinterpret science as being a collection of facts discovered by authority figures rather than a process of questioning the validity of any claims made. It's almost as if the concept of science has turned into the religion of the atheist. Unquestionable, and dictated by more holy figures than them, in the form of scientists, and in some cases politicians, rather than clergy.

_yb2s 2y ago
I can see how they came to see it this way, since that is how science was taught to me in public school... I only knew better because both of my parents were scientists, and I grew up helping them with their research. I think that could be changed by changing how science is taught: give people the tools to experiment and reason, and figure out an answer on their own. I'd like to see more kids volunteering to work with real scientists, and see what the work is like firsthand. These science-as-religion people often attack me online, and in real life when I share my own ideas... and then back down and flip almost to some creepy worship when they figure out I'm an academic PI. No reasoning or evidence can convince them of anything, but credentials instantly do. I'd like to explain to them- as an officially ordained "science priest" with the degree and job title- that believing things based on authority rather than understanding yourself is the most heinous blasphemy possible. /s
- tubalcain 2y ago
  Maybe that's why people are like that, but I think it's more baked into most people than we care to admit. I think part of our human wiring is to have faith. It used to be in deities, now it is in "science!" Humans, most of them anyway, are also wired to follow authority blindly. I really don't think there's any way around it. It's not that people refuse to be skeptical, it's that they are probably incapable of it.