15 ms·

>Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his piano writing was fairly innovative I bow to your superior knowledge, just want to add for the poor s

>Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his piano writing was fairly innovative I bow to your superior knowledge, just want to add for the poor shlubs who are even dumber than me: Chopin was not simply a composer, but a virtuoso piano player, and i guess because of that he wrote what he wrote for the piano; in contrast to say Mozart who performed at the piano but mostly composed for orchestras, etc. And the periods of time were different wrt, when Chopin was active, Mozart, Beethoven et al's music innovations already existed, along with larger audiences to play for, which created Chopin's niche or something like that, i'm not a music guy

Synaesthesia 2y ago
Mozart, Beethoven, Bach and Brahms (as well as many other composers) were all virtuoso piano or keyboard players. Chopin is unusual in that he wrote almost exclusively for the piano.
- gmueckl 2y ago
  My understanding is that when writing for an orchestra, a composer needs to adjust to the orchestra's skill level and likely err a bit on the easy side for good measure.
  - tolciho 2y ago
    Most composers, most of the time. Beethoven, on the other hand, refused to rewrite portions of the Ninth that were maybe too high for some to sing, and you can probably find difficult instrument parts if you chat to, say, Bassoon players.
    - dbalatero 2y ago
      Heh to quote Beethoven (from: https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-beethoven/ https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-beethoven...): > As practice gradually moved away from this insular model, and standing, virtuoso quartets replaced ad hoc groups as the chief vehicles of chamber music performance, Beethoven’s compositions became increasingly experimental (and daunting). Legend has it that when Ignaz Schuppanzigh—a well-known Viennese violinist and Beethoven supporter—complained about a particularly difficult passage in one of the Op. 59 quartets, the master retorted, “Do you suppose I am thinking about your wretched fiddle when the spirit moves me?”
  - rectang 2y ago
    If you write a piece that "plays well", a player can play it well — and give a more compelling performance. What makes a piece "play well" isn't necessarily that it be "easy"; more that it be natural and idiomatic for the instrument... which will in turn be easy. If you write a piece that a player struggles to play, that will sometimes come through via a muddled and strained performance. There are famous exceptions that prove the rule on this, such as the extremely high register opening bassoon passage from Rite of Spring through which Stravinsky intended to convey strain, or the trumpet squeals of Ray Nance at the end of many Ellington arrangements. Generally, though, you want the players to be able to play your piece well. And "err on the easy side" is an effective way to do that, especially when writing for instruments you aren't personally an expert with.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  maybe I don't use the words right, but go to each of their wikipedia pages and search for the word "court". You will see that Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven depended much more heavily on the favor of the various noble courts, while Chopin and the later Brahms were more commercial (not in a bad way, just in a historical way)
- djtango 2y ago
  Chopin was special because he wasn't bounded by the orthodoxy - Chopin was so prodigious as a child and had mostly surpassed his teacher in virtuosity as a mere child. His teacher made the excellent decision that he shouldn't prejudice Chopin with preconceived notions of piano technique so Chopin was free to develop his own way of playing from young through his formative preteen and adolescent years. Wiki entry on his teacher: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_%C5%BBywny#:~:text=Wojciech%20%C5%BBywny%20(Czech%3A%20Vojt%C4%9Bch%20%C5%BDivn%C3%BD,s%20first%20professional%20piano%20teacher https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_%C5%BBywny#:~:text=....
- thruway516 2y ago
  I think what they're saying is in the times of Mozart, Beethoven etc you would not have been able to survive exclusively or mainly as a composer for piano. A career like Chopin's was only possible later on when music and the arts in general was more established and composers didnt live or die by royal patronage and the odd subscription concert here and there. Chopin is unusual in comparison to those earlier composers but not really unusual for his time. Liszt is another contemporary who wrote mainly for piano and there are probably at least few other lesser known 'specialists'(none of which come to mind alas)

Synaesthesia 2y ago

Mozart, Beethoven, Bach and Brahms (as well as many other composers) were all virtuoso piano or keyboard players. Chopin is unusual in that he wrote almost exclusively for the piano.

gmueckl 2y ago
My understanding is that when writing for an orchestra, a composer needs to adjust to the orchestra's skill level and likely err a bit on the easy side for good measure.
- tolciho 2y ago
  Most composers, most of the time. Beethoven, on the other hand, refused to rewrite portions of the Ninth that were maybe too high for some to sing, and you can probably find difficult instrument parts if you chat to, say, Bassoon players.
  - dbalatero 2y ago
    Heh to quote Beethoven (from: https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-beethoven/ https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-beethoven...): > As practice gradually moved away from this insular model, and standing, virtuoso quartets replaced ad hoc groups as the chief vehicles of chamber music performance, Beethoven’s compositions became increasingly experimental (and daunting). Legend has it that when Ignaz Schuppanzigh—a well-known Viennese violinist and Beethoven supporter—complained about a particularly difficult passage in one of the Op. 59 quartets, the master retorted, “Do you suppose I am thinking about your wretched fiddle when the spirit moves me?”
- rectang 2y ago
  If you write a piece that "plays well", a player can play it well — and give a more compelling performance. What makes a piece "play well" isn't necessarily that it be "easy"; more that it be natural and idiomatic for the instrument... which will in turn be easy. If you write a piece that a player struggles to play, that will sometimes come through via a muddled and strained performance. There are famous exceptions that prove the rule on this, such as the extremely high register opening bassoon passage from Rite of Spring through which Stravinsky intended to convey strain, or the trumpet squeals of Ray Nance at the end of many Ellington arrangements. Generally, though, you want the players to be able to play your piece well. And "err on the easy side" is an effective way to do that, especially when writing for instruments you aren't personally an expert with.
fsckboy 2y ago
maybe I don't use the words right, but go to each of their wikipedia pages and search for the word "court". You will see that Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven depended much more heavily on the favor of the various noble courts, while Chopin and the later Brahms were more commercial (not in a bad way, just in a historical way)
djtango 2y ago
Chopin was special because he wasn't bounded by the orthodoxy - Chopin was so prodigious as a child and had mostly surpassed his teacher in virtuosity as a mere child. His teacher made the excellent decision that he shouldn't prejudice Chopin with preconceived notions of piano technique so Chopin was free to develop his own way of playing from young through his formative preteen and adolescent years. Wiki entry on his teacher: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_%C5%BBywny#:~:text=Wojciech%20%C5%BBywny%20(Czech%3A%20Vojt%C4%9Bch%20%C5%BDivn%C3%BD,s%20first%20professional%20piano%20teacher https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_%C5%BBywny#:~:text=....
thruway516 2y ago
I think what they're saying is in the times of Mozart, Beethoven etc you would not have been able to survive exclusively or mainly as a composer for piano. A career like Chopin's was only possible later on when music and the arts in general was more established and composers didnt live or die by royal patronage and the odd subscription concert here and there. Chopin is unusual in comparison to those earlier composers but not really unusual for his time. Liszt is another contemporary who wrote mainly for piano and there are probably at least few other lesser known 'specialists'(none of which come to mind alas)