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What happens if you don’t know Python? Python is a relatively easy language to learn but no way I’m gonna learn Python just to report an issue

js8 2y ago
The same thing that happens if the author of the OSS you use doesn't know English.
nunez 2y ago
That's exactly it. They put up a gate that blocks low-effort issues that only add busywork. I like it!
Filligree 2y ago
Good chance you wouldn't be writing good bug reports either, then. Github issues have enough noise that a first-pass filter like this feels like a good idea, even if it has some false positives.
- papichulo2023 2y ago
  I fail to see the logic in your comment. Just another case of Goodhart's law.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - achierius 2y ago
    This isn't really a metric though. It's a formal existence proof that the bug exists. The key difference IMO is that you have to create a test which A) looks (to the maintainer) like it should pass, while simultaneously B) not passing. It's much harder to game. There are other cases where Goodharts Law fails as well: consider quant firms, where the "metric" used to judge a trader is basically how much money you pull in. Seems to be working fine for them
  - dartos 2y ago
    If you can’t describe your bug in a test, then you probably can’t describe it sufficiently in English either. Seems to make sense
- latexr 2y ago
  This in no way aligns with reality. I frequently interact with users who can’t code at all but make good bug reports. One of the best ways to ensure success is to have a form (GitHub allows creating those) which describe exactly what is necessary and guide people in the right direction. What you're saying is even worse, since you’re implying someone could be an expert computer programmer or power user, but because they’re unfamiliar with the specific language this project chose, they are incapable of making good bug reports. That makes no sense.
dartos 2y ago
Then you don’t get to contribute bug reports. Perfectly fine rule for a maintainer to have.
dotancohen 2y ago
If the bug is egregious enough, somebody else will find it. If the bug is important enough to you but esoteric, then ask on a forum or enlist the help of someone you know who does know Python. How do you currently submit bug reports on e.g. MS Word or Adobe Photoshop? This way is certainly more open than those commonly-deployed software.
epcoa 2y ago
Did you (or anyone) in this thread look to see exactly what they are looking for with their provided examples? https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2680/commits/313b8d28d55611be78ebcabce14e11301a65349e https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2680/commits/313b8d2... You do not need to know Python deeply to construct what they are expecting. They’re not actually looking for a unit test or something.
- latexr 2y ago
  > Did you (or anyone) in this thread look to see exactly what they are looking for with their provided examples? I did. And I looked at all examples of “good commits”, not just the trivial ones. https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2685/files https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2685/files That’s already complex for someone unfamiliar with the software (which might nonetheless be able to open a competent bug report).
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js8 2y ago

The same thing that happens if the author of the OSS you use doesn't know English.

nunez 2y ago

That's exactly it. They put up a gate that blocks low-effort issues that only add busywork. I like it!

Filligree 2y ago

Good chance you wouldn't be writing good bug reports either, then. Github issues have enough noise that a first-pass filter like this feels like a good idea, even if it has some false positives.

papichulo2023 2y ago
I fail to see the logic in your comment. Just another case of Goodhart's law.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- achierius 2y ago
  This isn't really a metric though. It's a formal existence proof that the bug exists. The key difference IMO is that you have to create a test which A) looks (to the maintainer) like it should pass, while simultaneously B) not passing. It's much harder to game. There are other cases where Goodharts Law fails as well: consider quant firms, where the "metric" used to judge a trader is basically how much money you pull in. Seems to be working fine for them
- dartos 2y ago
  If you can’t describe your bug in a test, then you probably can’t describe it sufficiently in English either. Seems to make sense
latexr 2y ago
This in no way aligns with reality. I frequently interact with users who can’t code at all but make good bug reports. One of the best ways to ensure success is to have a form (GitHub allows creating those) which describe exactly what is necessary and guide people in the right direction. What you're saying is even worse, since you’re implying someone could be an expert computer programmer or power user, but because they’re unfamiliar with the specific language this project chose, they are incapable of making good bug reports. That makes no sense.

dartos 2y ago

Then you don’t get to contribute bug reports. Perfectly fine rule for a maintainer to have.

dotancohen 2y ago

If the bug is egregious enough, somebody else will find it. If the bug is important enough to you but esoteric, then ask on a forum or enlist the help of someone you know who does know Python. How do you currently submit bug reports on e.g. MS Word or Adobe Photoshop? This way is certainly more open than those commonly-deployed software.

epcoa 2y ago

Did you (or anyone) in this thread look to see exactly what they are looking for with their provided examples? https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2680/commits/313b8d28d55611be78ebcabce14e11301a65349e https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2680/commits/313b8d2... You do not need to know Python deeply to construct what they are expecting. They’re not actually looking for a unit test or something.

latexr 2y ago
> Did you (or anyone) in this thread look to see exactly what they are looking for with their provided examples? I did. And I looked at all examples of “good commits”, not just the trivial ones. https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2685/files https://github.com/soimort/you-get/pull/2685/files That’s already complex for someone unfamiliar with the software (which might nonetheless be able to open a competent bug report).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]