4 ms·

Minimal? HPPD and DP/DR are incurable. When will psychedelics advocates be intellectually honest instead of being cultists and shills?

SammyStacks 2y ago
It's absurd to call psychedelic advocates "cultists and shills." What do you even define as "psychedelics advocates?" Are people who want further research into the potential therapeutic benefits of psychedelics cultists and shills? Obviously any substance will have side effects, and some will be very negative. But perhaps people with crippling mental health issues will be willing to take that risk when the science exists to allow them to give *informed* consent. Are those people cultists and shills?
- ladzoppelin 2y ago
  I agree that not all advocates are "cultist" but I did not even know this existed as a real disease, https://www.perception.foundation/faq https://www.perception.foundation/faq. Wow , not sure if the site is accurate but either way it seems both sides of the issue need to be very honest and smart about psychedelics because info about Marijuana is just starting to be better known and that info was never in the conversation before, just like psychedelics now.
  - advael 2y ago
    There are few drugs for which withdrawal symptoms can include death, but alcohol is one of them and it's legal for adults to consume it recreationally. I don't think elucidating the risks of any substance is ever a bad thing, but it's also disingenuous to frame this as presenting "both sides" of an issue. The claim that a drug has some potential side effects simply has no bearing on the question of whether prohibition is good policy, because the case against prohibition isn't and has never been that any drug is completely risk-free or cures every disease or makes you shit rainbows or whatever nonsense, the claim is that adults should get to make those decisions for themselves
- ogogmad 2y ago
  I agree that was over the top. I was motivated to exaggerate a bit to counter what I sometimes see as one-sided, breathless advocacy. HPPD exists, and as another poster said, it may be attributable to things like anxiety - so maybe not the end of the world? Still, it needs to be in the discussion.
makeitdouble 2y ago
I was wondering what HPPD are, for anyone else in the same boat: > Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a non-psychotic disorder in which a person experiences apparent lasting or persistent visual hallucinations or perceptual distortions after using drugs,[1] including but not limited to psychedelics, dissociatives, entactogens, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), and SSRIs.[2][3] Despite being designated as a hallucinogen-specific disorder, the specific contributory role of psychedelic drugs is unknown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percep... So, from the get go the relation to psychedelics is pretty murky ?
- ogogmad 2y ago
  You read "the specific contributory role of psychedelic drugs is unknown" from Wikipedia as "the relation to psychedelics is pretty murky"? Did you follow any of the links before you posted your comment? Most hallucinogen users will experience some long-lasting effects, especially to their vision. The nature of it can vary. This can happen in only one use.
  - advael 2y ago
    I wouldn't say most, maybe a little under half, and usually these are pretty minor effects that don't bother the person very much, and for the most part seem within normal subjective variance, just perhaps jarring because of the change. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some extreme cases, but it's kind of alarmist to view it as ultra scary compared to even the effects on your adenosine cascade from persistent caffeine use. I haven't personally had any of these despite having tried a number of psychadelics, and I get the mindset that anything that could be permanent sounds like a pretty serious risk, but as harms go this is quite negligible in practice.
    - ogogmad 2y ago
      Do we have numbers? I'd like to take precautions, given the risk of ruining someone's vision or mental health permanently - instead of simply trusting someone's assurances.

SammyStacks 2y ago

It's absurd to call psychedelic advocates "cultists and shills." What do you even define as "psychedelics advocates?" Are people who want further research into the potential therapeutic benefits of psychedelics cultists and shills? Obviously any substance will have side effects, and some will be very negative. But perhaps people with crippling mental health issues will be willing to take that risk when the science exists to allow them to give *informed* consent. Are those people cultists and shills?

ladzoppelin 2y ago
I agree that not all advocates are "cultist" but I did not even know this existed as a real disease, https://www.perception.foundation/faq https://www.perception.foundation/faq. Wow , not sure if the site is accurate but either way it seems both sides of the issue need to be very honest and smart about psychedelics because info about Marijuana is just starting to be better known and that info was never in the conversation before, just like psychedelics now.
- advael 2y ago
  There are few drugs for which withdrawal symptoms can include death, but alcohol is one of them and it's legal for adults to consume it recreationally. I don't think elucidating the risks of any substance is ever a bad thing, but it's also disingenuous to frame this as presenting "both sides" of an issue. The claim that a drug has some potential side effects simply has no bearing on the question of whether prohibition is good policy, because the case against prohibition isn't and has never been that any drug is completely risk-free or cures every disease or makes you shit rainbows or whatever nonsense, the claim is that adults should get to make those decisions for themselves
ogogmad 2y ago
I agree that was over the top. I was motivated to exaggerate a bit to counter what I sometimes see as one-sided, breathless advocacy. HPPD exists, and as another poster said, it may be attributable to things like anxiety - so maybe not the end of the world? Still, it needs to be in the discussion.

makeitdouble 2y ago

I was wondering what HPPD are, for anyone else in the same boat: > Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a non-psychotic disorder in which a person experiences apparent lasting or persistent visual hallucinations or perceptual distortions after using drugs,[1] including but not limited to psychedelics, dissociatives, entactogens, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), and SSRIs.[2][3] Despite being designated as a hallucinogen-specific disorder, the specific contributory role of psychedelic drugs is unknown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percep... So, from the get go the relation to psychedelics is pretty murky ?

ogogmad 2y ago
You read "the specific contributory role of psychedelic drugs is unknown" from Wikipedia as "the relation to psychedelics is pretty murky"? Did you follow any of the links before you posted your comment? Most hallucinogen users will experience some long-lasting effects, especially to their vision. The nature of it can vary. This can happen in only one use.
- advael 2y ago
  I wouldn't say most, maybe a little under half, and usually these are pretty minor effects that don't bother the person very much, and for the most part seem within normal subjective variance, just perhaps jarring because of the change. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some extreme cases, but it's kind of alarmist to view it as ultra scary compared to even the effects on your adenosine cascade from persistent caffeine use. I haven't personally had any of these despite having tried a number of psychadelics, and I get the mindset that anything that could be permanent sounds like a pretty serious risk, but as harms go this is quite negligible in practice.
  - ogogmad 2y ago
    Do we have numbers? I'd like to take precautions, given the risk of ruining someone's vision or mental health permanently - instead of simply trusting someone's assurances.