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I don’t get it, whenever I read some American commenting on anything I roughly agree with, it invariably takes a sudden turn, devolving into an arbitrary accusa

by eecc 2y ago

I don’t get it, whenever I read some American commenting on anything I roughly agree with, it invariably takes a sudden turn, devolving into an arbitrary accusation against the Left, Communism or Socialism. You’re obsessed folks, calm down

RandomThoughts3 2y ago
I am from France and I would say the same thing they do. The traditional left here has been and still is extremely detrimental to the country as a whole and has kept from their communist roots - that’s where most of the old guard has been formed - an extremely strong tendency towards control where they would rather destroy anything successful not coming from them than see it prosper. It’s even more sad in France because the main left wing party used to be dominated by its social democrat wing and be somewhat apt to govern but is now decimated and subservient to other more extreme parties which are completely disconnected from reality. Not that the right is any better. They are more and more fascist by the day. We are on a trajectory to do the same mistakes Italy did.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > the same mistakes Italy did Italy, I understand, also had had a tradition of conciliation and search for common grounds, a call to the common good. (A drive helped by the fight against a common enemy before the half of the past century.) The grave mistake is polarization, those steps towards a "cold civil war" (that seems now so common around the world). But before that, allowing the twisted stagnate in their dumb lowly positions (like said taste for «destr[uction]» and «disconnect[ion] from reality»), in the disgregation of the societal spirit - a root of the abovesaid polarization. It is a lurking entropic phenomenon requiring active correction, normally through debate, through "talking", productive confrontation; it is not absent in these pages.
znpy 2y ago
I’m not American. You should stop assuming everything happens and only happen in the us.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  I’d say that running a profitable company in a socially conscious way is proof that the drive for profit above anything else that characterises capitalism is misguided. Olivetti could be more profitable if they didn’t care so much about the well-being of their workers and their families, but they proved they can, and that is better than maximising shareholder value at any cost.
  - znpy 2y ago
    Olivetti was extremely profitable for the time.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      If it could keep their workers with fewer benefits, profits would be higher. This works for a while - you'll lose your best and brightest, who have no patience for this game, but with enough process layered on top of an unskilled workforce, you can get really far (as Amazon's warehouses can show).
      - eecc 2y ago
        So it’s a race to the bottom, until even the skilled get squeezed… not smart

by eecc 2y ago

RandomThoughts3 2y ago

I am from France and I would say the same thing they do. The traditional left here has been and still is extremely detrimental to the country as a whole and has kept from their communist roots - that’s where most of the old guard has been formed - an extremely strong tendency towards control where they would rather destroy anything successful not coming from them than see it prosper. It’s even more sad in France because the main left wing party used to be dominated by its social democrat wing and be somewhat apt to govern but is now decimated and subservient to other more extreme parties which are completely disconnected from reality. Not that the right is any better. They are more and more fascist by the day. We are on a trajectory to do the same mistakes Italy did.

mdp2021 2y ago
> the same mistakes Italy did Italy, I understand, also had had a tradition of conciliation and search for common grounds, a call to the common good. (A drive helped by the fight against a common enemy before the half of the past century.) The grave mistake is polarization, those steps towards a "cold civil war" (that seems now so common around the world). But before that, allowing the twisted stagnate in their dumb lowly positions (like said taste for «destr[uction]» and «disconnect[ion] from reality»), in the disgregation of the societal spirit - a root of the abovesaid polarization. It is a lurking entropic phenomenon requiring active correction, normally through debate, through "talking", productive confrontation; it is not absent in these pages.

znpy 2y ago

I’m not American. You should stop assuming everything happens and only happen in the us.

rbanffy 2y ago
I’d say that running a profitable company in a socially conscious way is proof that the drive for profit above anything else that characterises capitalism is misguided. Olivetti could be more profitable if they didn’t care so much about the well-being of their workers and their families, but they proved they can, and that is better than maximising shareholder value at any cost.
- znpy 2y ago
  Olivetti was extremely profitable for the time.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    If it could keep their workers with fewer benefits, profits would be higher. This works for a while - you'll lose your best and brightest, who have no patience for this game, but with enough process layered on top of an unskilled workforce, you can get really far (as Amazon's warehouses can show).
    - eecc 2y ago
      So it’s a race to the bottom, until even the skilled get squeezed… not smart