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> They invaded a country without a reason. They had their reasons or at least rationalizations, though you don't see them and they might not make sense to you.

> They invaded a country without a reason. They had their reasons or at least rationalizations, though you don't see them and they might not make sense to you. > They literally are the bad guy. Maybe. I agree that the invasion was a very grave evil. Even so, it doesn't mean that they're destined to lose, and we shouldn't think that way. Mongols were bad guys but won so much that they got tired of winning. It's a very grave fallacy to believe that the Good Guys always prevail. And, besides, the Russians you ask would surely say, "Wait, you think those Banderite Ukrainians are the GOOD Guys?! And here I thought we were the Good Guys! Throughout its entire history, Russia has always fought and always conquered evil." > Of course they say that, otherwise they would be in prison. You can't seriously believe this. I'd invite you to hang out on the Russian internet (or Russian Telegram) for a different view. Have a look at what they write in their own language, when talking between themselves.

mrkeen 2y ago
> You can't seriously believe this. You don't need to say that Putin isn't great to get arrested. Holding up a blank piece of paper is enough.
- lukan 2y ago
  It can be enough. Not at all everyone who expressed opposition to the war is in prison. I did not looked too much into it, but can you name anyone at all, who is in a russian prison now, simply for verbally opposing the war? (There surely are plenty of political prisoners in russia, but I believe they were more vocal and organised in their opposition)
  - amenhotep 2y ago
    If you'd asked this two weeks ago it would've been pretty easy for me. Alexei Moskalev has only just been released from a penal colony. I suppose you can dismiss that because social media posts and having a daughter with a brain and a heart don't count as "verbal", but I don't think that would be very reasonable.
    - lukan 2y ago
      Well, I would consider his actions quite vocal. (And the article in the realm of propaganda, because they made it look like he was jailed just for the picture, when he also made uncited posts on social media.) But nevertheless, it is another good example to save, for my debates with certain people of other opinion. (Nato aggression)
benterix 2y ago
> They had their reasons or at least rationalizations, though you don't see them and they might not make sense to you. I read Putin's rationalization that was published just after the war broke off and retracted soon after but you can still read it.[0] He basically claims that Russia has to be great again and it is his historical role to conquer it so that Ukrainians are his slaves just like Belorussians are. So yes, they have their reasons and realizations, just like another ruler in 1938 and 1939, the problem is that nobody else agreed with them. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220305153356/https://thefrontierpost.com/the-new-world-order/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220305153356/https://thefronti...
benterix 2y ago
> Have a look at what they write in their own language, when talking between themselves. Let them enjoy some degree of relative freedom on Telegram channels where they still can. I honestly doubt it will last for long.

mrkeen 2y ago

> You can't seriously believe this. You don't need to say that Putin isn't great to get arrested. Holding up a blank piece of paper is enough.

lukan 2y ago
It can be enough. Not at all everyone who expressed opposition to the war is in prison. I did not looked too much into it, but can you name anyone at all, who is in a russian prison now, simply for verbally opposing the war? (There surely are plenty of political prisoners in russia, but I believe they were more vocal and organised in their opposition)
- amenhotep 2y ago
  If you'd asked this two weeks ago it would've been pretty easy for me. Alexei Moskalev has only just been released from a penal colony. I suppose you can dismiss that because social media posts and having a daughter with a brain and a heart don't count as "verbal", but I don't think that would be very reasonable.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Well, I would consider his actions quite vocal. (And the article in the realm of propaganda, because they made it look like he was jailed just for the picture, when he also made uncited posts on social media.) But nevertheless, it is another good example to save, for my debates with certain people of other opinion. (Nato aggression)

benterix 2y ago

> They had their reasons or at least rationalizations, though you don't see them and they might not make sense to you. I read Putin's rationalization that was published just after the war broke off and retracted soon after but you can still read it.[0] He basically claims that Russia has to be great again and it is his historical role to conquer it so that Ukrainians are his slaves just like Belorussians are. So yes, they have their reasons and realizations, just like another ruler in 1938 and 1939, the problem is that nobody else agreed with them. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220305153356/https://thefrontierpost.com/the-new-world-order/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220305153356/https://thefronti...

benterix 2y ago

> Have a look at what they write in their own language, when talking between themselves. Let them enjoy some degree of relative freedom on Telegram channels where they still can. I honestly doubt it will last for long.