6 ms·

Why do you think on-screen knobs is a failure? I personally find them very convenient for the purpose.

frabert 2y ago
As long as they support dragging up and down as a way to make them rotate
grujicd 2y ago
If it's operated by a mouse you're not sure where to click and hold, and how it will react when you move mouse in which direction. I assume you're using it a lot and then it's intuitive. For novice it's not. If I click on bottom part will it operate in another direction compared with clicking on top part? Or what about if I click on left or right edge? Can I also move mouse up-down and left-right or is only one direction allowed? Is mouse-up turning knob up or down? Are these rules same in all software or knob behaves slightly different everywhere? I have no idea for any of that except if I try and see. And since I rarely use them it's always a source for frustration. Especially compared to linear slider which is impossible to misunderstand and you can't operate in it wrong way.
- rzzzt 2y ago
  The scroll wheel usually works for these as well.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    It's a great use for scroll wheel.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  > Are these rules same in all software or knob behaves slightly different everywhere? They're different everywhere. My own opinion is that on-screen knobs for audio-type work can be fine as long as one can grab any part of the knob with the mouse and adjust it by moving the mouse up and down (er...well, physically forward and back). But things are not always this way so it seems that opinions vary.
- scott01 2y ago
  Yeah, I see how it can be confusing for novices. But learning curve aside, there is something other than just looks that kept this UI pattern alive all these decades. How I see it [1], absolute values don't matter audio software, except when working with loudness compliance or some very technical things. What's important is how things sound, and it's generally a bad practice relying on UI metering to dial in sound in most cases. The typical audio work involves fine tuning parameters until things feel right. In UX terms, relative parameter tuning is the most common kind of interaction, and sliders absolutely suck balls at it, in my humble opinion. Linear sliders actually have more inconsistencies across implementation than knobs, that have converged to more or less the same pattern. E.g. some sliders reset value if you click in the middle of it, at which point all prior tuning is lost - this is super annoying and I hate it. Others operate in relative mode and they're similarly intuitive in regards to which direction they should operate depending on slider orientation (should horizontal slider change its value with up-down movement? should interaction range extend beyond slider length?). Also, such sliders are identical to knobs, essentially, but take more screen space. So, in a a nutshell, knobs are superior for fine tuning, which is 90% of all audio software interactions. 1. I'm not a professional, but I have clocked in thousands of hours into DAWs and other related software over the years as a hobby, also I played on a few local gigs and made some simple audio software.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    I think knobs specifically target computer novices, with the software publisher thinking that a computer-appropriate control would be somehow baffling or confusing to people who "know knobs." The shortcomings of sliders you mention are down to shitty implementations. I have never seen a slider that resets if you click in the middle of it; that's a crap UI. It's common to simply have a little reset button next to a variable control. "should horizontal slider change its value with up-down movement? should interaction range extend beyond slider length?" Of course not to both. I've never seen either one of those behaviors. Knobs are bad for fine adjustment, because the closer to the center you click and drag, the more drastic the adjustment per pixel of dragging.
    - scott01 2y ago
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Nailed it. Even if the knob worked like a real knob, it would suck. I'm supposed to drag the cursor around in a circle? What a fussy PITA. And what is the hittable zone for that? The very edge? The center to the edge? Some slop area beyond the edge too? Just no.

As long as they support dragging up and down as a way to make them rotate

If it's operated by a mouse you're not sure where to click and hold, and how it will react when you move mouse in which direction. I assume you're using it a lot and then it's intuitive. For novice it's not. If I click on bottom part will it operate in another direction compared with clicking on top part? Or what about if I click on left or right edge? Can I also move mouse up-down and left-right or is only one direction allowed? Is mouse-up turning knob up or down? Are these rules same in all software or knob behaves slightly different everywhere? I have no idea for any of that except if I try and see. And since I rarely use them it's always a source for frustration. Especially compared to linear slider which is impossible to misunderstand and you can't operate in it wrong way.

rzzzt 2y ago
The scroll wheel usually works for these as well.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  It's a great use for scroll wheel.
ssl-3 2y ago
> Are these rules same in all software or knob behaves slightly different everywhere? They're different everywhere. My own opinion is that on-screen knobs for audio-type work can be fine as long as one can grab any part of the knob with the mouse and adjust it by moving the mouse up and down (er...well, physically forward and back). But things are not always this way so it seems that opinions vary.
scott01 2y ago
Yeah, I see how it can be confusing for novices. But learning curve aside, there is something other than just looks that kept this UI pattern alive all these decades. How I see it [1], absolute values don't matter audio software, except when working with loudness compliance or some very technical things. What's important is how things sound, and it's generally a bad practice relying on UI metering to dial in sound in most cases. The typical audio work involves fine tuning parameters until things feel right. In UX terms, relative parameter tuning is the most common kind of interaction, and sliders absolutely suck balls at it, in my humble opinion. Linear sliders actually have more inconsistencies across implementation than knobs, that have converged to more or less the same pattern. E.g. some sliders reset value if you click in the middle of it, at which point all prior tuning is lost - this is super annoying and I hate it. Others operate in relative mode and they're similarly intuitive in regards to which direction they should operate depending on slider orientation (should horizontal slider change its value with up-down movement? should interaction range extend beyond slider length?). Also, such sliders are identical to knobs, essentially, but take more screen space. So, in a a nutshell, knobs are superior for fine tuning, which is 90% of all audio software interactions. 1. I'm not a professional, but I have clocked in thousands of hours into DAWs and other related software over the years as a hobby, also I played on a few local gigs and made some simple audio software.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  I think knobs specifically target computer novices, with the software publisher thinking that a computer-appropriate control would be somehow baffling or confusing to people who "know knobs." The shortcomings of sliders you mention are down to shitty implementations. I have never seen a slider that resets if you click in the middle of it; that's a crap UI. It's common to simply have a little reset button next to a variable control. "should horizontal slider change its value with up-down movement? should interaction range extend beyond slider length?" Of course not to both. I've never seen either one of those behaviors. Knobs are bad for fine adjustment, because the closer to the center you click and drag, the more drastic the adjustment per pixel of dragging.
  - scott01 2y ago
DidYaWipe 2y ago
Nailed it. Even if the knob worked like a real knob, it would suck. I'm supposed to drag the cursor around in a circle? What a fussy PITA. And what is the hittable zone for that? The very edge? The center to the edge? Some slop area beyond the edge too? Just no.