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I believe it is backwards: Human society is predicated on humans being special. Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animal

I believe it is backwards: Human society is predicated on humans being special. Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animals on Earth. And of course, an elephant will likely say they're special while everything else isn't.

oefnak 2y ago
We are on top, which makes us special.
- ben_w 2y ago
  The endemic diseases say we're not on top of the food chain. We're special to each other because we wouldn't function very well if we didn't find each other special.
- 9dev 2y ago
  Yet, we take great care in our own society to ensure people higher up in the food chain don’t take advantage of those below them—so much so, in fact, that the declaration of human rights declares we’re all born equal. If we sort ourselves in a hierarchy with other sentient beings, why doesn’t the same concept apply to them too?
dartos 2y ago
> Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animals on Earth. Except in all the ways that we are? What other species have left the planet and came back to tell the tale?
- guax 2y ago
  Dogs, monkeys, rats. Surely we took them there and back, but how sure are we that that wasn't their plan all along?!
- defrost 2y ago
  Ham the chimpanzee for one. It seems askew to attribute 8 billion+ humans with an attribute marking so few humans .
  - dartos 2y ago
    The point is that any human did that at all, whereas no other species has.
    - defrost 2y ago
      No human has run faster than a cheetah nor flown like an eagle. What is your point that elevates the value of human life above that of other animals?
      - dartos 2y ago
        > No human has run faster than a cheetah nor flown like an eagle. No, but we have and regularly do move faster than any cheetah and fly higher and further than any eagle. My point is that, to an objective observer, there are things that humans have done and can do that make us obviously separate, as a species, than any other animal on earth. The scale of our combined efforts dwarf the efforts of other animals. Especially when considering that, physically, we have very few advantages over other animals. Arguing against that point is just playing mental gymnastics to say “oh actually humans aren’t really exceptional” Idk what that might say about the “value” (whatever that means) of human life compared to other life. A concrete example would be climate change. Humans have been pumping the atmosphere full of shit for a long time and it’s causing global climate changes. No other animal has affected the climate at that scale. Bad or not, that kind of thing makes us humans exceptional.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        >No other animal has affected the climate at that scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event The environmental impact humans have had, if any, is astronomically negligible. Even if it wasn't, we certainly aren't the first and certainly won't be the last.
rsyring 2y ago
> Human society is predicated on humans being special. So far, so good. > Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animals on Earth And...we hard exit stage left. It's sad when presumably good intentions, like the ethical treatment of animals and cultivating some well needed humility as a species, leads to such an unfounded point of view. From a purely biological perspective, I could see that argument. But until animals start hunting, experimenting on, cultivating, and eating humans, en masse, creating symphonies or buildings that will last centuries, and start sending themselves to space, I'll continue to believe the difference between humans and animals is a qualitative and not just a quantitative difference. I don't think a truly objective observe could see it any other way.
makeitdouble 2y ago
I'd disagree for two reasons: - Humans can easily treat other humans as things as well. Humans being special is to me more or a convenient fiction than something really at the core of our societies. - For such a long time, we didn't have to care whether humans need to be separated from animals, the value scale was pretty flat in that respect. In many circumstances a horse from a higher up would be more important than a peasant's life.

oefnak 2y ago

We are on top, which makes us special.

ben_w 2y ago
The endemic diseases say we're not on top of the food chain. We're special to each other because we wouldn't function very well if we didn't find each other special.
9dev 2y ago
Yet, we take great care in our own society to ensure people higher up in the food chain don’t take advantage of those below them—so much so, in fact, that the declaration of human rights declares we’re all born equal. If we sort ourselves in a hierarchy with other sentient beings, why doesn’t the same concept apply to them too?

dartos 2y ago

> Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animals on Earth. Except in all the ways that we are? What other species have left the planet and came back to tell the tale?

guax 2y ago
Dogs, monkeys, rats. Surely we took them there and back, but how sure are we that that wasn't their plan all along?!
defrost 2y ago
Ham the chimpanzee for one. It seems askew to attribute 8 billion+ humans with an attribute marking so few humans .
- dartos 2y ago
  The point is that any human did that at all, whereas no other species has.
  - defrost 2y ago
    No human has run faster than a cheetah nor flown like an eagle. What is your point that elevates the value of human life above that of other animals?
    - dartos 2y ago
      > No human has run faster than a cheetah nor flown like an eagle. No, but we have and regularly do move faster than any cheetah and fly higher and further than any eagle. My point is that, to an objective observer, there are things that humans have done and can do that make us obviously separate, as a species, than any other animal on earth. The scale of our combined efforts dwarf the efforts of other animals. Especially when considering that, physically, we have very few advantages over other animals. Arguing against that point is just playing mental gymnastics to say “oh actually humans aren’t really exceptional” Idk what that might say about the “value” (whatever that means) of human life compared to other life. A concrete example would be climate change. Humans have been pumping the atmosphere full of shit for a long time and it’s causing global climate changes. No other animal has affected the climate at that scale. Bad or not, that kind of thing makes us humans exceptional.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        >No other animal has affected the climate at that scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event The environmental impact humans have had, if any, is astronomically negligible. Even if it wasn't, we certainly aren't the first and certainly won't be the last.

rsyring 2y ago

> Human society is predicated on humans being special. So far, so good. > Any truly objective observer will say humans are no different from other animals on Earth And...we hard exit stage left. It's sad when presumably good intentions, like the ethical treatment of animals and cultivating some well needed humility as a species, leads to such an unfounded point of view. From a purely biological perspective, I could see that argument. But until animals start hunting, experimenting on, cultivating, and eating humans, en masse, creating symphonies or buildings that will last centuries, and start sending themselves to space, I'll continue to believe the difference between humans and animals is a qualitative and not just a quantitative difference. I don't think a truly objective observe could see it any other way.

makeitdouble 2y ago

I'd disagree for two reasons: - Humans can easily treat other humans as things as well. Humans being special is to me more or a convenient fiction than something really at the core of our societies. - For such a long time, we didn't have to care whether humans need to be separated from animals, the value scale was pretty flat in that respect. In many circumstances a horse from a higher up would be more important than a peasant's life.