4 ms·

I'm a bit upset by this article. What exactly does Matthew Perry's sad and untimely death have to do with psychedelic research? I seriously doubt there are any

I'm a bit upset by this article. What exactly does Matthew Perry's sad and untimely death have to do with psychedelic research? I seriously doubt there are any researchers that believe injecting someone with ketamine 27 times in a week is a good idea. The reality is people were profiteering from a vulnerable person, using fraudulent prescriptions [1]. I agree the science is weak, but it is promising [2]. Let's be more specific and avoid emotional language like in this article. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/20/us/matthew-perry-death-5-charged/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/20/us/matthew-perry-death-5-... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106989/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39106989/

codebolt 2y ago
Was the ketamine not prescribed to him? That makes it an example of the kinds of abuse/misuse we could expect more of if these things become more widespread, if nothing else.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Was the ketamine not prescribed to him? Yes and no. He was being dosed under the supervision of a doctor, but he acquired the "extras" from some other people who saw him as an easy, vulnerable mark who would pay them a lot for it. > That makes it an example of the kinds of abuse/misuse we could expect more of if these things become more widespread, if nothing else. Sure, and that's something to consider, but I don't think we should stop testing things that could be lifesavers for some people because they can be misused. If that's how we're going to do it, we need to go back to prohibition and just ban everything, including alcohol and tobacco. That certainly worked out well the last time we tried it... Perry also didn't die of an overdose in the "traditional" sense: the large amount of ketamine in his system acted as a sedative and he drowned. If he hadn't gone in the water, he probably would not have died that day.
Joel_Mckay 2y ago
In general, getting high is a maladaptive coping strategy chosen by some people, and technically it is against the Hippocratic Oath to assist giving them a chemical lobotomy. The opioid epidemic helped erode away ethics in medicine, as many physicians partnered with drug-dealers/Sackler-family to exploit users knowing full well the "medication" had serious side-effects. As I watch the squirrels getting high on the poisonous mushrooms, and howling at a passersby in the yard this time of year... it reminds one that the methodology of self-harm is an irrelevant detail. Drug addicts have an endless supply of excuses why they think their behavior is justified. Indeed, there are an ecosystem of unethical people willing to help them along the wrong path. I don't think people should go to jail for seeking an artificial cathartic experience, but rather be forced to join the Native shamans in a 2 week Datura fueled experience. However, facing insanity while hallucinating and rolling in your own excrement naked for 2 weeks is not popular for some reason... =3
- simianparrot 2y ago
  You’re not wrong. I think what we see a lot of in the world these days and particularly a lot of US states is some form of malignancy cloaked as compassion that enables destructive spirals of self-harm through drug abuse.
- leoedin 2y ago
  > getting high is a maladaptive coping strategy chosen by some people The problem with saying this is that being high simply isn't a single thing. It’s a huge spectrum of experiences done for different reasons. My experience with psychedelics is that they are extremely fun. Sure, it’s escapism - in the same way a funfair or a film is escapism. That doesn’t make it immoral. It’s not even clear that it’s self harm - certainly no more than horse riding is a form of self harm (statistically speaking).
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I don't think GP was arguing that's the only use of these drugs; it was a direct response to Matthew Perry's situation.

codebolt 2y ago

Was the ketamine not prescribed to him? That makes it an example of the kinds of abuse/misuse we could expect more of if these things become more widespread, if nothing else.

kelnos 2y ago
> Was the ketamine not prescribed to him? Yes and no. He was being dosed under the supervision of a doctor, but he acquired the "extras" from some other people who saw him as an easy, vulnerable mark who would pay them a lot for it. > That makes it an example of the kinds of abuse/misuse we could expect more of if these things become more widespread, if nothing else. Sure, and that's something to consider, but I don't think we should stop testing things that could be lifesavers for some people because they can be misused. If that's how we're going to do it, we need to go back to prohibition and just ban everything, including alcohol and tobacco. That certainly worked out well the last time we tried it... Perry also didn't die of an overdose in the "traditional" sense: the large amount of ketamine in his system acted as a sedative and he drowned. If he hadn't gone in the water, he probably would not have died that day.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago

In general, getting high is a maladaptive coping strategy chosen by some people, and technically it is against the Hippocratic Oath to assist giving them a chemical lobotomy. The opioid epidemic helped erode away ethics in medicine, as many physicians partnered with drug-dealers/Sackler-family to exploit users knowing full well the "medication" had serious side-effects. As I watch the squirrels getting high on the poisonous mushrooms, and howling at a passersby in the yard this time of year... it reminds one that the methodology of self-harm is an irrelevant detail. Drug addicts have an endless supply of excuses why they think their behavior is justified. Indeed, there are an ecosystem of unethical people willing to help them along the wrong path. I don't think people should go to jail for seeking an artificial cathartic experience, but rather be forced to join the Native shamans in a 2 week Datura fueled experience. However, facing insanity while hallucinating and rolling in your own excrement naked for 2 weeks is not popular for some reason... =3

simianparrot 2y ago
You’re not wrong. I think what we see a lot of in the world these days and particularly a lot of US states is some form of malignancy cloaked as compassion that enables destructive spirals of self-harm through drug abuse.
leoedin 2y ago
> getting high is a maladaptive coping strategy chosen by some people The problem with saying this is that being high simply isn't a single thing. It’s a huge spectrum of experiences done for different reasons. My experience with psychedelics is that they are extremely fun. Sure, it’s escapism - in the same way a funfair or a film is escapism. That doesn’t make it immoral. It’s not even clear that it’s self harm - certainly no more than horse riding is a form of self harm (statistically speaking).
- kelnos 2y ago
  I don't think GP was arguing that's the only use of these drugs; it was a direct response to Matthew Perry's situation.