5 ms·

Imagine telling a quadriplegic something like this, though. The neurodiverse, which ADHD is a part, are always being told we still need to measure up to the sta

by ok_dad 2y ago

Imagine telling a quadriplegic something like this, though. The neurodiverse, which ADHD is a part, are always being told we still need to measure up to the standards of the non-disabled in some form or another. It’s always about how we shouldn’t offload our struggles on others. There’s no wheelchair for us, almost no one cares if our workplaces aren’t accommodating.

falcolas 2y ago
100% this. This often manifests as "It's not your fault but it is your responsibility." Which is a great thinking framework when it helps you accept what you have and do what you can do mitigate it. But here's the kicker: our "what we can do" will never be enough to be neurotypical. We'll need help, even when we're using all our coping mechanisms. And if we don't get that help, the outcome is simple: we're going to fail.
- exmadscientist 2y ago
  In my experience, the line is drawn, brightly, in one place: does the "disabled" person genuinely try to work with others, or do they expect to be given a free pass because they played the disability card? I have worked with some severely disabled people. (Probably more than you have, given one of my past jobs.) Most of them worked their ass off to make things work out and for that they have my eternal respect, my cooperation, and the benefit of the doubt. I have also worked with some people who just throw their hands up and say "but I'm disabled" whenever they are asked to do anything they don't want to do. I do not respect those people.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    What kind of disabilities? Visible (missing or non-functional limbs) or invisible (chronic pain, adhd, depression) ones? More specifically, how do you know whether they could or couldn't do the things you were asking them to do, especially if it was an invisible disability? Doing it before isn't a good indicator. Other people with the same disability doing it isn't a good indicator. Not visibly trying isn't a good indicator. Having a blowout (or not) isn't a good indicator. Being too tired (or too wired) isn't a good indicator.
    - lazide 2y ago
      The issue here is at the end of the day, there is work to do, and results matter. Everyone has finite shits to give. If everything is going fine, other people will often be willing to pick up slack or adjust. If other people are exhausted, overworked, or have no more shits to give - they won’t. Or more precisely, at some point they can’t. Or suffer negative outcomes themselves. Disabilities are called that because they make things harder, for the people who have them, and for those around them. Same with disorders.
      - falcolas 2y ago
        > they make things harder, ... for those around them Agreed. I think the point I'm trying to make is simple, to abuse your examples here: Your not giving a shit is neither my fault nor my problem. And to generalize it, "Your problem with my personal trait is neither my fault nor my problem." Be that trait a disability, skin color, sexuality, gender, or nationality. Because unfortunately disabilities are just targeted as all those other ones when people want a scapegoat. I might be getting a bit philosophical, but that's what this feels like it boils down to. Person A is vocal about their dislike of something about Person B.
        lazide 2y ago
        If you say ‘should not be my problem’, then I’d agree since ‘Should’ usually means ‘I wish’. The issue is that, like you note, it’s easy to ‘other’ people with disabilities and attack them, especially visible disabilities. So then other people’s perceptions become a real problem for them, yes?
    - exmadscientist 2y ago
      These were not coworker or peer relationships, so I don't think your list/agenda here is particularly relevant.
Teever 2y ago
That's a bit hyperbolic though, don't you think? It's pretty unreasonable to compare one relatively minor disability to an extreme physical one that inhibits basic things like brushing your teeth or going to the bathroom. ADHD doesn't stop you from doing those basic things does it? For many people with ADHD it doesn't make things impossible, just much more difficult. I think the point that the person you're trying to make is that too many people with an ADHD diagnosis think that being public with that diagnosis gives them a free pass to not over come the difficulties they face.
- jon_richards 2y ago
  Funny you chose that example… https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17587293/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17587293/
  - Teever 2y ago
    Now show me the statistics on quadrapeligics brushing their teeth.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - hluska 2y ago
      You used very poor examples and that’s okay. You don’t have to be perfect - it’s totally acceptable to wade into a conversation, realize you really weren’t qualified and back out. You don’t have to resort to this level of aggressive debate.
- falcolas 2y ago
  > ADHD doesn't stop you from doing those basic things does it? Ironic that you picked those two - it absolutely does. ADHD (and autism) have trouble forming habits - remembering to brush your teeth is something that's a real problem for most folks who have ADHD. Not to mention showering, deodorant, etc. As for the bathroom, most ADHD people will hyperfocus to the point where they either don't notice they have to use the bathroom, sometimes for an entire work day at a time. Constipation and minor incontinence are not as uncommon as we wish. > For many people with ADHD it doesn't make things impossible, just much more difficult. Imagine you have a set of spoons with which to do work. For a NT, doing something like brushing your teeth is a habit, so it doesn't take a spoon. For a ND, the habit fails to form, so they have to exert mental energy to do it. Two spoons. Keep this up for an entire day, and by the time you have to cook dinner, ND just don't eat because they've been out of spoons since mid-day. The NT cooks dinner and has a few spoons left over to work on their hobby. Difficult might as well be impossible when you're out of energy. Or spoons. EDIT: Wow. This blew up. I wouldn't mind chatting more about it.
n8cpdx 2y ago
[flagged]
- falcolas 2y ago
  > labeling ADHD a disability is a category error No, it's not. According to doctors, scientists, and the ADA. That factual inaccuracy aside, would you consider someone with chronic back pain to not have a disability since they can take heavy painkillers every day for the rest of their lives? Or someone who is legally blind but who can put on glasses?
  - valval 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - wlesieutre 2y ago
    Legally blind is tested with corrective lenses, if your vision can be improved to 20/200 in either eye by wearing glasses you wouldn’t qualify as legally blind (in the US)
- abbadadda 2y ago
  [flagged]
- ok_dad 2y ago
  Heck, they have exoskeletons today, so I guess quadriplegics should just get that and walk right? There’s one more disability cured!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by ok_dad 2y ago

falcolas 2y ago

100% this. This often manifests as "It's not your fault but it is your responsibility." Which is a great thinking framework when it helps you accept what you have and do what you can do mitigate it. But here's the kicker: our "what we can do" will never be enough to be neurotypical. We'll need help, even when we're using all our coping mechanisms. And if we don't get that help, the outcome is simple: we're going to fail.

exmadscientist 2y ago
In my experience, the line is drawn, brightly, in one place: does the "disabled" person genuinely try to work with others, or do they expect to be given a free pass because they played the disability card? I have worked with some severely disabled people. (Probably more than you have, given one of my past jobs.) Most of them worked their ass off to make things work out and for that they have my eternal respect, my cooperation, and the benefit of the doubt. I have also worked with some people who just throw their hands up and say "but I'm disabled" whenever they are asked to do anything they don't want to do. I do not respect those people.
- falcolas 2y ago
  What kind of disabilities? Visible (missing or non-functional limbs) or invisible (chronic pain, adhd, depression) ones? More specifically, how do you know whether they could or couldn't do the things you were asking them to do, especially if it was an invisible disability? Doing it before isn't a good indicator. Other people with the same disability doing it isn't a good indicator. Not visibly trying isn't a good indicator. Having a blowout (or not) isn't a good indicator. Being too tired (or too wired) isn't a good indicator.
  - lazide 2y ago
    The issue here is at the end of the day, there is work to do, and results matter. Everyone has finite shits to give. If everything is going fine, other people will often be willing to pick up slack or adjust. If other people are exhausted, overworked, or have no more shits to give - they won’t. Or more precisely, at some point they can’t. Or suffer negative outcomes themselves. Disabilities are called that because they make things harder, for the people who have them, and for those around them. Same with disorders.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > they make things harder, ... for those around them Agreed. I think the point I'm trying to make is simple, to abuse your examples here: Your not giving a shit is neither my fault nor my problem. And to generalize it, "Your problem with my personal trait is neither my fault nor my problem." Be that trait a disability, skin color, sexuality, gender, or nationality. Because unfortunately disabilities are just targeted as all those other ones when people want a scapegoat. I might be getting a bit philosophical, but that's what this feels like it boils down to. Person A is vocal about their dislike of something about Person B.
      - lazide 2y ago
        If you say ‘should not be my problem’, then I’d agree since ‘Should’ usually means ‘I wish’. The issue is that, like you note, it’s easy to ‘other’ people with disabilities and attack them, especially visible disabilities. So then other people’s perceptions become a real problem for them, yes?
  - exmadscientist 2y ago
    These were not coworker or peer relationships, so I don't think your list/agenda here is particularly relevant.

Teever 2y ago

That's a bit hyperbolic though, don't you think? It's pretty unreasonable to compare one relatively minor disability to an extreme physical one that inhibits basic things like brushing your teeth or going to the bathroom. ADHD doesn't stop you from doing those basic things does it? For many people with ADHD it doesn't make things impossible, just much more difficult. I think the point that the person you're trying to make is that too many people with an ADHD diagnosis think that being public with that diagnosis gives them a free pass to not over come the difficulties they face.

jon_richards 2y ago
Funny you chose that example… https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17587293/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17587293/
- Teever 2y ago
  Now show me the statistics on quadrapeligics brushing their teeth.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hluska 2y ago
    You used very poor examples and that’s okay. You don’t have to be perfect - it’s totally acceptable to wade into a conversation, realize you really weren’t qualified and back out. You don’t have to resort to this level of aggressive debate.
falcolas 2y ago
> ADHD doesn't stop you from doing those basic things does it? Ironic that you picked those two - it absolutely does. ADHD (and autism) have trouble forming habits - remembering to brush your teeth is something that's a real problem for most folks who have ADHD. Not to mention showering, deodorant, etc. As for the bathroom, most ADHD people will hyperfocus to the point where they either don't notice they have to use the bathroom, sometimes for an entire work day at a time. Constipation and minor incontinence are not as uncommon as we wish. > For many people with ADHD it doesn't make things impossible, just much more difficult. Imagine you have a set of spoons with which to do work. For a NT, doing something like brushing your teeth is a habit, so it doesn't take a spoon. For a ND, the habit fails to form, so they have to exert mental energy to do it. Two spoons. Keep this up for an entire day, and by the time you have to cook dinner, ND just don't eat because they've been out of spoons since mid-day. The NT cooks dinner and has a few spoons left over to work on their hobby. Difficult might as well be impossible when you're out of energy. Or spoons. EDIT: Wow. This blew up. I wouldn't mind chatting more about it.

n8cpdx 2y ago

[flagged]

falcolas 2y ago
> labeling ADHD a disability is a category error No, it's not. According to doctors, scientists, and the ADA. That factual inaccuracy aside, would you consider someone with chronic back pain to not have a disability since they can take heavy painkillers every day for the rest of their lives? Or someone who is legally blind but who can put on glasses?
- valval 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- wlesieutre 2y ago
  Legally blind is tested with corrective lenses, if your vision can be improved to 20/200 in either eye by wearing glasses you wouldn’t qualify as legally blind (in the US)
abbadadda 2y ago
[flagged]
ok_dad 2y ago
Heck, they have exoskeletons today, so I guess quadriplegics should just get that and walk right? There’s one more disability cured!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]