3 ms·

Agreed about the others but wouldn't the Okies be part of the Scots-Irish strain he covers?

by blast 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago
Not really. Much of Texas and Oklahoma was/is a cultural mixture of southern settlers, Central Europeans, Eastern Europeans, Hispanics, and Native Americans that turned into it's own culture. There's a reason why bock bier (eg. Shiner Bock), dryland farming (a Russian German thing), frybread (from the Bureau of Indian Affairs era), Cowboy culture (a merger of older Hispanic Ranchero culture with southern settler culture), etc became a thing in Texas and Oklahoma
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  There is to this day a Californio-derived "vaquero culture" in CA which considers TX-style "buckaroo" cowboys (who dally their lariats, have cow savvy pintos, etc.) to be a cheap knock-off. (and to your point about italians: I'm not sure but suspect the use of snubbing posts in round pens came via swamp italians. Also, don't forget the portuguese: not as prominent as on HI, but still pretty common, eg Devin Nunes)
  - nwatson 2y ago
    A huge number of towns in the Bay Area and all over the Central Valley have Portuguese community centers, Sociedade do Espírito Santo (Holy Spirit Society) or something like that. Santa Clara, Hayward, San Leandro, Pescadero, Sausalito, Newark, San Jose, Tracy, etc. I am missing so many. Members carry on traditional Catholic festivals, have community music bands, etc. I crashed one such party, it was fun. During my 20+ years in the Bay Area I listened to a lot of Portuguese/Azorean radio, so much that it corrupted my accent. I was born in the Texas of Brazil but I sound a bit like the British equivalent now.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > Also, don't forget the portuguese: not as prominent as on HI, but still pretty common, eg Devin Nunes Absolutely (though it's specifically Azoreans)! And to that point, stereotypes do not take into account the historic diversity that Central California has had. Mexican, Okies, Portuguese/Azorean, Italian, German, Czech, Armenian, Chinese, Punjabi, Russian, and other settlers had an outsized influence on the development of Central California. And this itself highlights how Albion's Seed does not generalize well outside the Eastern Seaboard (nor did Fischer intend for his work to be applied that way - he only concentrated on New England, Virginia, the lower Delaware Valley/Philly, and Appalachia, not on the rest of the US.

Agreed about the others but wouldn't the Okies be part of the Scots-Irish strain he covers?

by blast 2y ago

Agreed about the others but wouldn't the Okies be part of the Scots-Irish strain he covers?

Not really. Much of Texas and Oklahoma was/is a cultural mixture of southern settlers, Central Europeans, Eastern Europeans, Hispanics, and Native Americans that turned into it's own culture. There's a reason why bock bier (eg. Shiner Bock), dryland farming (a Russian German thing), frybread (from the Bureau of Indian Affairs era), Cowboy culture (a merger of older Hispanic Ranchero culture with southern settler culture), etc became a thing in Texas and Oklahoma

082349872349872 2y ago
There is to this day a Californio-derived "vaquero culture" in CA which considers TX-style "buckaroo" cowboys (who dally their lariats, have cow savvy pintos, etc.) to be a cheap knock-off. (and to your point about italians: I'm not sure but suspect the use of snubbing posts in round pens came via swamp italians. Also, don't forget the portuguese: not as prominent as on HI, but still pretty common, eg Devin Nunes)
- nwatson 2y ago
  A huge number of towns in the Bay Area and all over the Central Valley have Portuguese community centers, Sociedade do Espírito Santo (Holy Spirit Society) or something like that. Santa Clara, Hayward, San Leandro, Pescadero, Sausalito, Newark, San Jose, Tracy, etc. I am missing so many. Members carry on traditional Catholic festivals, have community music bands, etc. I crashed one such party, it was fun. During my 20+ years in the Bay Area I listened to a lot of Portuguese/Azorean radio, so much that it corrupted my accent. I was born in the Texas of Brazil but I sound a bit like the British equivalent now.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > Also, don't forget the portuguese: not as prominent as on HI, but still pretty common, eg Devin Nunes Absolutely (though it's specifically Azoreans)! And to that point, stereotypes do not take into account the historic diversity that Central California has had. Mexican, Okies, Portuguese/Azorean, Italian, German, Czech, Armenian, Chinese, Punjabi, Russian, and other settlers had an outsized influence on the development of Central California. And this itself highlights how Albion's Seed does not generalize well outside the Eastern Seaboard (nor did Fischer intend for his work to be applied that way - he only concentrated on New England, Virginia, the lower Delaware Valley/Philly, and Appalachia, not on the rest of the US.