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I’m curious, what’s the rationale for this? Is it corporate espionage? Or do you live in China/have family there and engage in online activity that might cause

I’m curious, what’s the rationale for this? Is it corporate espionage? Or do you live in China/have family there and engage in online activity that might cause problems?

llamaimperative 2y ago
You don't need to live in China or have family there to be worried about China: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illegal-overseas-police-station-chinese-government https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illega... People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle, regardless of their personal attachment to China.
- doctor_radium 2y ago
  Agreed, and I know Opera is Chinese-owned, but Opera's web site still lists their headquarters as Norway. Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company, with some safeguards against abuse? Not sure if any EU laws might also come into play.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company No. It's a Chinese company with an office in Oslo (in addition to China) [1]. Had they run it as an independent subsidiary there might have been a claim that it remains Norwegian. But they haven't and so it isn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_and_second_IPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_an...
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    I think foreign intelligence services are perfectly comfortable "navigating" laws. Obviously every company is vulnerable to this, but it sure is preferable not to have ownership concentrated in a country where all corporations are de facto extensions of the state itself.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle Or self preservation. Every intelligence agency collects blackmail. The obvious targets are those in high office. But sometimes you need disposable randos to e.g. collect intelligence or place assets. Being able to pass blackmail to an operative who can use it to convince e.g. a farmer to give them pictures of a silo or Air Force base (under the guise of commercial espionage for a domestic competitor or whatever) is valuable.
Tadpole9181 2y ago
You don't have to live in China for Chinese surveillance to be undesirable or even harmful. The Chinese government has made great strides, but they are still a corrupt governing body completely outside our control. I already don't want the US government to spy on me, and I actually have ways of being compensated for damages they do, let alone a government with diametrically opposed ideology and active campaigns to harm Western interests.
halJordan 2y ago
This is a charged topic when it's an American disclaiming Chinese tech. But the Europeans have been targeting American tech for a decade now. Whatever reasons you accept from the Europeans about why Facebook/Instagram is unacceptable are the ones you should apply here.

I’m curious, what’s the rationale for this? Is it corporate espionage? Or do you live in China/have family there and engage in online activity that might cause problems?

llamaimperative 2y ago

You don't need to live in China or have family there to be worried about China: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illegal-overseas-police-station-chinese-government https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illega... People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle, regardless of their personal attachment to China.

doctor_radium 2y ago
Agreed, and I know Opera is Chinese-owned, but Opera's web site still lists their headquarters as Norway. Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company, with some safeguards against abuse? Not sure if any EU laws might also come into play.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company No. It's a Chinese company with an office in Oslo (in addition to China) [1]. Had they run it as an independent subsidiary there might have been a claim that it remains Norwegian. But they haven't and so it isn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_and_second_IPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_an...
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  I think foreign intelligence services are perfectly comfortable "navigating" laws. Obviously every company is vulnerable to this, but it sure is preferable not to have ownership concentrated in a country where all corporations are de facto extensions of the state itself.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle Or self preservation. Every intelligence agency collects blackmail. The obvious targets are those in high office. But sometimes you need disposable randos to e.g. collect intelligence or place assets. Being able to pass blackmail to an operative who can use it to convince e.g. a farmer to give them pictures of a silo or Air Force base (under the guise of commercial espionage for a domestic competitor or whatever) is valuable.

Tadpole9181 2y ago

You don't have to live in China for Chinese surveillance to be undesirable or even harmful. The Chinese government has made great strides, but they are still a corrupt governing body completely outside our control. I already don't want the US government to spy on me, and I actually have ways of being compensated for damages they do, let alone a government with diametrically opposed ideology and active campaigns to harm Western interests.

halJordan 2y ago

This is a charged topic when it's an American disclaiming Chinese tech. But the Europeans have been targeting American tech for a decade now. Whatever reasons you accept from the Europeans about why Facebook/Instagram is unacceptable are the ones you should apply here.