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At the very least claiming neutrality after baking that sub stack title needs an explanation or apology, and even still the authorities involved are absolutely

At the very least claiming neutrality after baking that sub stack title needs an explanation or apology, and even still the authorities involved are absolutely correct to cancel or at least postpone her lecture out of an abundance of caution to avoid a hatch act violation.

justin66 2y ago
> least claiming neutrality after baking that sub stack title needs an explanation or apology I don’t think the ability to deliver a nonpartisan lecture hinges on one’s “neutrality”, which is largely a fictional quality in human beings. > avoid a hatch act violation I don’t think it’s even hypothetically relevant to this case, but if recent years have taught us anything, it’s that nobody involved in US politics, law enforcement, or government is interested in seeing the Hatch Act enforced. I’d be delighted if that weren’t the case.
- throwawaymaths 2y ago
  That's completely not true. I know firsthand of well-meaning ads put out by the veterans administration that urged veteran voters to go vote for X because it helps veterans that had to get pulled. It is a conflict of interest for low level bureaucrats in the administration to lobby the public for shit that puts money into its own pocket, and that is taken seriously.
  - justin66 2y ago
    Oh, that's interesting. Thanks. I looked up the case you seem to be referencing and I'm beginning to wonder if with the Hatch Act it's a case where the law applies to the little people but not the higher-ups.
    - throwawaymaths 2y ago
      Not that I am a politics junkie but I don't recall any incident where a cabinet level officer has made a public presentation urging the public to vote one way or the other. I suspect they are very coached on the hatch act and made to understand that for them the consequences are likely to be severe. In case you're curious at the low level among civilians it happens all the time, usually settled with a minor slap on the wrist (few days probation and docked pay). For someone in the military though I suspect it could be career-ending at a minimum, with unknown punishments meted out via the UCMJ (generally stricter than civilian courts for things like this). This one was pretty egregious though: https://osc.gov/News/Pages/18-08-Hatch-Act-Complaint-VA-Doctor.aspx https://osc.gov/News/Pages/18-08-Hatch-Act-Complaint-VA-Doct... Here are specific hatch act guidelines in the DOD: https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/DoD-Personnel/Ethics-Topics-for-DoD-Personnel/Political-Activities/ https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/DoD-Personnel/Ethics-Topics-for-... Note that flag officers (generals, admirals) are SES equivalent.
      - justin66 2y ago
        > Not that I am a politics junkie but I don't recall any incident where a cabinet level officer has made a public presentation urging the public to vote one way or the other. I suspect they are very coached on the hatch act and made to understand that for them the consequences are likely to be severe. There were some blatant, widely reported violations of the Hatch Act during the Trump administration. Unprosecuted, unless I missed something. I didn't follow this topic too closely either - that administration had ahem an awful lot going on - but people found by the OSC to have violated the Hatch Act included a few cabinet members. (I think how many depends on whether you want to count "acting" cabinet members unconfirmed by congress) Bigger picture, I'm not sure I agree that they got the memo about violations of the Hatch Act having severe consequences. I remember media stories along the lines of "this upcoming scheduled campaign event at the White House would appear to possibly violate the Hatch Act" and the emergence of those stories did not result in a change of behavior. But they were protected in ways a VA Joe Schmoe would not be, and knew it. https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/Reports/Investigation%20of%20Political%20Activities%20by%20Senior%20Trump%20Administration%20Officials%20During%20the%202020%20Presidential%20Election.pdf https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/Reports/Investigation%... https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC64137/text https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC... https://osc.gov/News/Pages/21-02-Hatch-Act-Report-RNC.aspx https://osc.gov/News/Pages/21-02-Hatch-Act-Report-RNC.aspx

justin66 2y ago

> least claiming neutrality after baking that sub stack title needs an explanation or apology I don’t think the ability to deliver a nonpartisan lecture hinges on one’s “neutrality”, which is largely a fictional quality in human beings. > avoid a hatch act violation I don’t think it’s even hypothetically relevant to this case, but if recent years have taught us anything, it’s that nobody involved in US politics, law enforcement, or government is interested in seeing the Hatch Act enforced. I’d be delighted if that weren’t the case.

throwawaymaths 2y ago
That's completely not true. I know firsthand of well-meaning ads put out by the veterans administration that urged veteran voters to go vote for X because it helps veterans that had to get pulled. It is a conflict of interest for low level bureaucrats in the administration to lobby the public for shit that puts money into its own pocket, and that is taken seriously.
- justin66 2y ago
  Oh, that's interesting. Thanks. I looked up the case you seem to be referencing and I'm beginning to wonder if with the Hatch Act it's a case where the law applies to the little people but not the higher-ups.
  - throwawaymaths 2y ago
    Not that I am a politics junkie but I don't recall any incident where a cabinet level officer has made a public presentation urging the public to vote one way or the other. I suspect they are very coached on the hatch act and made to understand that for them the consequences are likely to be severe. In case you're curious at the low level among civilians it happens all the time, usually settled with a minor slap on the wrist (few days probation and docked pay). For someone in the military though I suspect it could be career-ending at a minimum, with unknown punishments meted out via the UCMJ (generally stricter than civilian courts for things like this). This one was pretty egregious though: https://osc.gov/News/Pages/18-08-Hatch-Act-Complaint-VA-Doctor.aspx https://osc.gov/News/Pages/18-08-Hatch-Act-Complaint-VA-Doct... Here are specific hatch act guidelines in the DOD: https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/DoD-Personnel/Ethics-Topics-for-DoD-Personnel/Political-Activities/ https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/DoD-Personnel/Ethics-Topics-for-... Note that flag officers (generals, admirals) are SES equivalent.
    - justin66 2y ago
      > Not that I am a politics junkie but I don't recall any incident where a cabinet level officer has made a public presentation urging the public to vote one way or the other. I suspect they are very coached on the hatch act and made to understand that for them the consequences are likely to be severe. There were some blatant, widely reported violations of the Hatch Act during the Trump administration. Unprosecuted, unless I missed something. I didn't follow this topic too closely either - that administration had ahem an awful lot going on - but people found by the OSC to have violated the Hatch Act included a few cabinet members. (I think how many depends on whether you want to count "acting" cabinet members unconfirmed by congress) Bigger picture, I'm not sure I agree that they got the memo about violations of the Hatch Act having severe consequences. I remember media stories along the lines of "this upcoming scheduled campaign event at the White House would appear to possibly violate the Hatch Act" and the emergence of those stories did not result in a change of behavior. But they were protected in ways a VA Joe Schmoe would not be, and knew it. https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/Reports/Investigation%20of%20Political%20Activities%20by%20Senior%20Trump%20Administration%20Officials%20During%20the%202020%20Presidential%20Election.pdf https://osc.gov/Documents/Hatch%20Act/Reports/Investigation%... https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC64137/text https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC... https://osc.gov/News/Pages/21-02-Hatch-Act-Report-RNC.aspx https://osc.gov/News/Pages/21-02-Hatch-Act-Report-RNC.aspx