4 ms·

> The problem is that windows was developed before security was important. But wasn't that Windows rebuilt from the ground up as Windows NT, which had more adv

> The problem is that windows was developed before security was important. But wasn't that Windows rebuilt from the ground up as Windows NT, which had more advanced security features out of the box than basic Unix/Linux (allow/deny ACLs vs octal permissions, SAM database vs /etc/passwd flatfile, SIDs vs manually assigned/reusable UIDs)? (And some other cool design features that never got used, like POSIX/OS2 subsystems being on equal footing as the "regular" Windows32 subsystem.)

mmooss 2y ago
> But wasn't that Windows rebuilt from the ground up as Windows NT That was the 1990s. Windows security was transformed in the 2000s and then with Windows 10. I'm not sure it can be said to be more vulnerable than other OSes.
- dagmx 2y ago
  It’s definitely more vulnerable than macOS since macOS has more encompassing system protection (SIP), kernel extensions have been moved to user space (DriverKit and FSKit), and pervasive sandboxing.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    Interesting, I might need to do some reading, but macOS was terrible for a long time, and seriously lagging behind windows when it came to security. They seemed to just be coasting on the fact that Apple as a platform simply wasn't targeted to anywhere near the extent Windows was. They didn't even have an ASLR implementation for way too long IIRC. Does macOS have any form of MAC yet, or do they just rely on sandboxing?
    - kchr 2y ago
      > Interesting, I might need to do some reading, > Does macOS have any form of MAC yet, or do they just rely on sandboxing? Kind of. There is a set of permissions an application can request in order to access protected services and areas of the filesystem, but maybe that's what you meant with sandboxing? https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl211c911f/15.0/mac/15.0 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl211c911f/...
      - ruthmarx 2y ago
        That just seems like stuff that requires an admin password.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > It’s definitely more vulnerable than macOS since macOS has ... That tells us some things about MacOS security, but nothing about Windows.

mmooss 2y ago

> But wasn't that Windows rebuilt from the ground up as Windows NT That was the 1990s. Windows security was transformed in the 2000s and then with Windows 10. I'm not sure it can be said to be more vulnerable than other OSes.

dagmx 2y ago
It’s definitely more vulnerable than macOS since macOS has more encompassing system protection (SIP), kernel extensions have been moved to user space (DriverKit and FSKit), and pervasive sandboxing.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  Interesting, I might need to do some reading, but macOS was terrible for a long time, and seriously lagging behind windows when it came to security. They seemed to just be coasting on the fact that Apple as a platform simply wasn't targeted to anywhere near the extent Windows was. They didn't even have an ASLR implementation for way too long IIRC. Does macOS have any form of MAC yet, or do they just rely on sandboxing?
  - kchr 2y ago
    > Interesting, I might need to do some reading, > Does macOS have any form of MAC yet, or do they just rely on sandboxing? Kind of. There is a set of permissions an application can request in order to access protected services and areas of the filesystem, but maybe that's what you meant with sandboxing? https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl211c911f/15.0/mac/15.0 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl211c911f/...
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      That just seems like stuff that requires an admin password.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > It’s definitely more vulnerable than macOS since macOS has ... That tells us some things about MacOS security, but nothing about Windows.