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In the past I’ve had some people accuse me of being a troll. On reflection, I found I was lonely and taking an opposing viewpoint not with the intent of upsetti

In the past I’ve had some people accuse me of being a troll. On reflection, I found I was lonely and taking an opposing viewpoint not with the intent of upsetting anyone, but with the intent of having a discussion and to keep it going. Also, because some people had very black and white views on what I thought was a more nuanced issue, so I was trying to help people see that nuance. People tend to engage more when debating against someone who they feel is wrong, than with someone they agree with. While this probably wasn’t healthy, it did help fill the void for a while. It did hurt when people would twist that into me being a troll, as that was never my intent. The first couple times it happened I spend a lot of time reading and re-reading the exchange to try and figure out what I was doing wrong and couldn’t figure it out. Of course there are people who simple use the term to discredit someone when they run out of arguments for their views in a debate, a standard ad hominem argument. As I’ve gotten older I’ve gotten better about noticing when I’m headed down that path and stopping myself, or simply disengaging with online communities where there is a lot of one-sided thinking that triggers my need to try to provide context or explain the other side (even if I didn’t necessarily agree with that other side, I felt like I could see where they were coming from and tried to help other people see it too, so there is less of a rift). I’m not sure if this is similar to what you’re going through, or helps you I see a motivation you may have not realized. If so, I did find disengaging from sites like Reddit helped a lot. Here at HN, when I first joined I read the guidelines[0] (and a few times since then). I found it really helped to make me more aware (though I’m sure not perfect). The community here also does a good job of regulating itself and sticking to the principles, which helps. Bad behavior isn’t rewarded like it is many other places, and the lack of an inbox system keeps things from getting out of hand. In person communities are almost always better. If you have those available to you, use them. Online communities are a poor substitute when overused. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

roughly 2y ago
There’s a real art to pulling people into conversation about their views without being cast as a caricature. People often frame their beliefs in opposition, and learning to recognize when you’ve suddenly been substituted with a straw man - when your counterparty is no longer discussing something with you, but arguing with Twitter/their parent/their own younger self - helps take some of the sting out of the troll accusation.
- al_borland 2y ago
  This is the thing I have been seeing more and more which I was attempting to push back against in a lot of my conversations. If people are thinking for themselves and being honest, I don't think they can perfectly fit into the little boxes people are assigned by all the caricature designers. And you're right, once someone assigns a box to you, it is very difficult to break free of it, especially on the context of a one-off online conversation. I truly believe that most people want the same things, we just have different opinions on the best way to get there. If we can focus on those shared goals, and use those as a vehicle to discus the different options to get there, maybe it would help for everyone to start off with common ground and avoid casting anyone with a different opinion as a villain. I've probably been somewhat naive thinking this can change or I can help shift it, even if just with a few people, but I don't like the idea of giving up hope and accepting that this is just the way it is. I want to believe in the future we can openly discus different and unpopular ideas with the shared goal of finding the best solution to move us forward toward those shared goals. At the very least, I expect this of our politicians and leaders, and am continuously disappointed.
kmoser 2y ago
Being honest with yourself about your motivations is huge. If I had to give advice on the art of conversation, whether online or off, it would be these points: - Be honest with yourself about your motivation: while you may be saying X, are you really implying Y? - Always take the high ground; don't escalate someone else's negativity - Be kind, even when being snarky - Give others the benefit of the doubt when they're saying something that could be interpreted either positively or negatively

roughly 2y ago

There’s a real art to pulling people into conversation about their views without being cast as a caricature. People often frame their beliefs in opposition, and learning to recognize when you’ve suddenly been substituted with a straw man - when your counterparty is no longer discussing something with you, but arguing with Twitter/their parent/their own younger self - helps take some of the sting out of the troll accusation.

al_borland 2y ago
This is the thing I have been seeing more and more which I was attempting to push back against in a lot of my conversations. If people are thinking for themselves and being honest, I don't think they can perfectly fit into the little boxes people are assigned by all the caricature designers. And you're right, once someone assigns a box to you, it is very difficult to break free of it, especially on the context of a one-off online conversation. I truly believe that most people want the same things, we just have different opinions on the best way to get there. If we can focus on those shared goals, and use those as a vehicle to discus the different options to get there, maybe it would help for everyone to start off with common ground and avoid casting anyone with a different opinion as a villain. I've probably been somewhat naive thinking this can change or I can help shift it, even if just with a few people, but I don't like the idea of giving up hope and accepting that this is just the way it is. I want to believe in the future we can openly discus different and unpopular ideas with the shared goal of finding the best solution to move us forward toward those shared goals. At the very least, I expect this of our politicians and leaders, and am continuously disappointed.

kmoser 2y ago

Being honest with yourself about your motivations is huge. If I had to give advice on the art of conversation, whether online or off, it would be these points: - Be honest with yourself about your motivation: while you may be saying X, are you really implying Y? - Always take the high ground; don't escalate someone else's negativity - Be kind, even when being snarky - Give others the benefit of the doubt when they're saying something that could be interpreted either positively or negatively