4 ms·

just as an aside, in political science/international relations, a "state" is what you are calling a nation state. A "nation" is like canadian first nations or t

just as an aside, in political science/international relations, a "state" is what you are calling a nation state. A "nation" is like canadian first nations or the cherokee nation or the german nation before there was a german state (not very long ago), i.e. it's an ethnicity/language. A nation state is when a nation and a state are combined, like Italy (a country, a polity, where the italian people live) and Japan. The USA is not a nation-state, it is just a state, nor is Canada.

Dilettante_ 2y ago
>The USA is not a nation-state, it is just a state, nor is Canada. That throws up the question in my mind: What makes a people into a nation? How uniform do they have to be?
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Quebec has entered the chat.
  - dmix 2y ago
    They do love to do that :)
- borski 2y ago
  I swear I’m not trying to pull an RTFM, but the Wikipedia page is genuinely an interesting one and goes into the history and the fact that nation-states, in particular, are a relatively modern phenomenon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    With today's (good) sensitivity to not letting ethnicity guide us to whether someone is a friend or an enemy, the rise of the nation state can seem like a bad idea. However, it should also be kept in mind that prior to nation states emerging, ethnicities were combined in states through the force of Royal or Imperial power; Bourbons, Hohenzollerns, Angevins, Carolingians DnGAF what nations they were ruling over, just as many as possible; and often times there still were ethnicities with greater power at the center who simply wanted to take your mind off of that. then of course, prior to the age of empires, nations formed where there were geographical boudaries between them and their neighbors, and they did exist as nation-states. The modern rise of nation-states took place in the context of the downfall of nobility/aristocracy. Democracy and free speech do, by their nature, unlock the expression of vulgar passions.
    - borski 2y ago
      I have no problem with the concept of nation-states. People will always seek to find their tribe. That is what makes America exceptionally unique on the world stage; it is seemingly becoming more tribal anyway, but the mix is unusual.
jMyles 2y ago
You know it's funny; I actually went back and forth several times on that part. I really just wanted to distinguish between city-states (and for that matter, cities), which, it seems obvious, have an easier time staying in their lane with regard to this conflict with IP. But you're absolutely right; the point was better made with simply the phrase "large states". (FWIW - and I think it's not worth much - I have a degree in political science).
- fsckboy 2y ago
  not your fault, the computer security community and crypto defi community just say "nation-state nation-state nation-state" as often as they can these days. I think it's because "the United States" which is made up of little states that-are-not-states internationally, has ruined the word "state" for the thing they want to talk about, the financial equivalent of state-sponsored-terrorism for example.

Dilettante_ 2y ago

>The USA is not a nation-state, it is just a state, nor is Canada. That throws up the question in my mind: What makes a people into a nation? How uniform do they have to be?

selimthegrim 2y ago
Quebec has entered the chat.
- dmix 2y ago
  They do love to do that :)
borski 2y ago
I swear I’m not trying to pull an RTFM, but the Wikipedia page is genuinely an interesting one and goes into the history and the fact that nation-states, in particular, are a relatively modern phenomenon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
- fsckboy 2y ago
  With today's (good) sensitivity to not letting ethnicity guide us to whether someone is a friend or an enemy, the rise of the nation state can seem like a bad idea. However, it should also be kept in mind that prior to nation states emerging, ethnicities were combined in states through the force of Royal or Imperial power; Bourbons, Hohenzollerns, Angevins, Carolingians DnGAF what nations they were ruling over, just as many as possible; and often times there still were ethnicities with greater power at the center who simply wanted to take your mind off of that. then of course, prior to the age of empires, nations formed where there were geographical boudaries between them and their neighbors, and they did exist as nation-states. The modern rise of nation-states took place in the context of the downfall of nobility/aristocracy. Democracy and free speech do, by their nature, unlock the expression of vulgar passions.
  - borski 2y ago
    I have no problem with the concept of nation-states. People will always seek to find their tribe. That is what makes America exceptionally unique on the world stage; it is seemingly becoming more tribal anyway, but the mix is unusual.

jMyles 2y ago

You know it's funny; I actually went back and forth several times on that part. I really just wanted to distinguish between city-states (and for that matter, cities), which, it seems obvious, have an easier time staying in their lane with regard to this conflict with IP. But you're absolutely right; the point was better made with simply the phrase "large states". (FWIW - and I think it's not worth much - I have a degree in political science).

fsckboy 2y ago
not your fault, the computer security community and crypto defi community just say "nation-state nation-state nation-state" as often as they can these days. I think it's because "the United States" which is made up of little states that-are-not-states internationally, has ruined the word "state" for the thing they want to talk about, the financial equivalent of state-sponsored-terrorism for example.