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At this point I kinda have to assume posts like these are just concern trolling and aren't really worth taking seriously If it's genuinely naive, this is a gre

At this point I kinda have to assume posts like these are just concern trolling and aren't really worth taking seriously If it's genuinely naive, this is a great time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest against a european country, and this is why they, and a bunch of companies associated with that, are being sanctioned. Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions?

mdp2021 2y ago
Also in other articles, it was not clear why those individuals were targeted, and it seemed it could be just because of the passport. (It seems, from other sources, that it is because of their employer.)
- sam_lowry_ 2y ago
  Serge Semin who wrote the goodbye letter [1] worked for Baikal Electronics, a military contractor. However, Baikal Electronics has been bancrupt for half a year, and he says he worked on the kernel as a volunteer lately. I think Chinese COTS suppliers are more used by contemporary Russian army, but none sanctions them. I can't really judge for the others, but in his case, the exclusion was either too late or totally unjustified. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932225
sshine 2y ago
[flagged]
- sshine 2y ago
  Since I got downvoted: I'm not saying their invasion of Ukraine isn't terrible. I'm just not used to think of Ukraine and Russia as being European countries. But they sure are on the European continent. It just seems that Russians then get regarded as the outsiders when Russia is also a European country.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    In my experience when most Europeans say 'Europe' or 'Europeans' they mean every country and nationality except their own.
rightbyte 2y ago
I guess Torwalds does not have much choice living in the US. But it is concerning. > genuinely naive I don't get this angle. My take is that 'naive' people believe they are the good guys. They emotionally rationalize when their tribe indirectly or directly drops bombs on children and get all worked up when a tribe their elders dislike do it. They are destablizing and part of the problem picture. You could argue US sanctions are counterproductive and are dividing. A 'people should work out their differences and be friends' is not naive. It is a 'ye the US and Russia more or less arbitrarily invade other countries from time to time. That is bad. Lets not get in the way'. Noam Chomsky or Henry Kissinger would like a word with all these mental shenanigans.
tharmas 2y ago
Please see Prof John Mearsheimer regarding Ukraine.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  What, of JM.? He has published much - some of quality and some weak. None of what I read of him seems relevant.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    CONFIDENTIAL: WikiLeaks Document PROVES U.S. Knew NATO Expansion Would Cause Russia/Ukraine War: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://libertarianinstitute.org/dont-tread-on-anyone/nyet-nato/ https://libertarianinstitute.org/dont-tread-on-anyone/nyet-n... The USA provoked a War with Russia via Ukraine. The USA sees it in their strategic interests to "Knock down" Russia's "strength" back to what it was in the 1990s i.e. on their knees. Provoking a War via a proxy such as Ukraine was seen as the best way to do this. Mearsheimer argues that Russia is not an existential threat to American Hegemony so therefore expanding NATO into Ukraine to provoke a War is an unnecessary goal. He sees China as the real existential threat. The USA is not 'defending" Ukraine because it cares about Ukraine. The situation in Gaza proves that the USA does not "care" about people at all, only what it sees as its strategic interests. The USA is using Israel as a proxy against Iran and Iranian backed "terrorists". The USA regards Israel as having similar strategic interests. And it can use Israel to do the "dirty work" while pretending that they "care" about human rites.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    Even in Obama's own book he states the reasons for Putin's motives regarding Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLqECnjJ7eU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLqECnjJ7eU
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      The matter was, "why is that relevant".
mdp2021 2y ago
> Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions Well, first they should be convinced that the sanction makes sense. It does not matter if it is the "law", an "order" or anything similar: you are responsible of what you do - including what you comply to. Maybe it does make sense, maybe it does not: from the outside, with limited information about the original decree, it seems perplexing. Surely it raises questions. For what your post is concerned, the war and the contributions to the Kernel do not have solid links between them - the jump from "there is a war" and "some contractors are inhibited contribution to the Linux kernel" is all to be justified. (The law is not a justification: the law requires justification.)
mardifoufs 2y ago
It's amazing that your comment talks about concern trolling while at the same time says: "it's time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest.." Yes, everyone knows that. The issue is how you could assert guilt by mere ownership of a passport. No sanction that I'm aware forbids any Russian national (even if say, living in Europe) from working on something. The cringy way Linus got the message out was also super weird. Trying to make the debate about something else is the concern trolling here.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  Passport is insufficient to get sanctioned (including this case).

mdp2021 2y ago

Also in other articles, it was not clear why those individuals were targeted, and it seemed it could be just because of the passport. (It seems, from other sources, that it is because of their employer.)

sam_lowry_ 2y ago
Serge Semin who wrote the goodbye letter [1] worked for Baikal Electronics, a military contractor. However, Baikal Electronics has been bancrupt for half a year, and he says he worked on the kernel as a volunteer lately. I think Chinese COTS suppliers are more used by contemporary Russian army, but none sanctions them. I can't really judge for the others, but in his case, the exclusion was either too late or totally unjustified. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932225

sshine 2y ago

[flagged]

sshine 2y ago
Since I got downvoted: I'm not saying their invasion of Ukraine isn't terrible. I'm just not used to think of Ukraine and Russia as being European countries. But they sure are on the European continent. It just seems that Russians then get regarded as the outsiders when Russia is also a European country.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  In my experience when most Europeans say 'Europe' or 'Europeans' they mean every country and nationality except their own.

rightbyte 2y ago

I guess Torwalds does not have much choice living in the US. But it is concerning. > genuinely naive I don't get this angle. My take is that 'naive' people believe they are the good guys. They emotionally rationalize when their tribe indirectly or directly drops bombs on children and get all worked up when a tribe their elders dislike do it. They are destablizing and part of the problem picture. You could argue US sanctions are counterproductive and are dividing. A 'people should work out their differences and be friends' is not naive. It is a 'ye the US and Russia more or less arbitrarily invade other countries from time to time. That is bad. Lets not get in the way'. Noam Chomsky or Henry Kissinger would like a word with all these mental shenanigans.

tharmas 2y ago

Please see Prof John Mearsheimer regarding Ukraine.

mdp2021 2y ago
What, of JM.? He has published much - some of quality and some weak. None of what I read of him seems relevant.
- tharmas 2y ago
  CONFIDENTIAL: WikiLeaks Document PROVES U.S. Knew NATO Expansion Would Cause Russia/Ukraine War: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://libertarianinstitute.org/dont-tread-on-anyone/nyet-nato/ https://libertarianinstitute.org/dont-tread-on-anyone/nyet-n... The USA provoked a War with Russia via Ukraine. The USA sees it in their strategic interests to "Knock down" Russia's "strength" back to what it was in the 1990s i.e. on their knees. Provoking a War via a proxy such as Ukraine was seen as the best way to do this. Mearsheimer argues that Russia is not an existential threat to American Hegemony so therefore expanding NATO into Ukraine to provoke a War is an unnecessary goal. He sees China as the real existential threat. The USA is not 'defending" Ukraine because it cares about Ukraine. The situation in Gaza proves that the USA does not "care" about people at all, only what it sees as its strategic interests. The USA is using Israel as a proxy against Iran and Iranian backed "terrorists". The USA regards Israel as having similar strategic interests. And it can use Israel to do the "dirty work" while pretending that they "care" about human rites.
- tharmas 2y ago
  Even in Obama's own book he states the reasons for Putin's motives regarding Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLqECnjJ7eU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLqECnjJ7eU
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    The matter was, "why is that relevant".

mdp2021 2y ago

> Why would any reasonable project try to circumvent such sanctions Well, first they should be convinced that the sanction makes sense. It does not matter if it is the "law", an "order" or anything similar: you are responsible of what you do - including what you comply to. Maybe it does make sense, maybe it does not: from the outside, with limited information about the original decree, it seems perplexing. Surely it raises questions. For what your post is concerned, the war and the contributions to the Kernel do not have solid links between them - the jump from "there is a war" and "some contractors are inhibited contribution to the Linux kernel" is all to be justified. (The law is not a justification: the law requires justification.)

mardifoufs 2y ago

It's amazing that your comment talks about concern trolling while at the same time says: "it's time to wake up to the fact that russia is conducting a war of conquest.." Yes, everyone knows that. The issue is how you could assert guilt by mere ownership of a passport. No sanction that I'm aware forbids any Russian national (even if say, living in Europe) from working on something. The cringy way Linus got the message out was also super weird. Trying to make the debate about something else is the concern trolling here.

lostmsu 2y ago
Passport is insufficient to get sanctioned (including this case).