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Population being split on the available options is the basis of democracy and is a feature not a bug. Otherwise we might as well just have a CCP style single pa

Population being split on the available options is the basis of democracy and is a feature not a bug. Otherwise we might as well just have a CCP style single party.

fakedang 2y ago
I'm sure we don't need to argue semantics here as you very well understand what I mean. The American public wasn't as divided as now. Heck, if Watergate were to have happened now, Nixon would have escaped scotch free - as Trump has. Joe Biden might even forever be remembered as the Neville Chamberlain of USA (even though Neville doesn't deserve his reputation while Biden absolutely does).
- maxerickson 2y ago
  What analogy are you proposing with the Chamberlain thing? Are you mad the US hasn't declared war on Russia and worried that it is going to have dire consequences for the US?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Are you mad the US hasn't declared war on Russia and worried that it is going to have dire consequences for the US? We've absolutely been slow rolling aid to Ukraine because the Biden White House bought Putin's bullshit. If we'd provided the weapons we're providing Kyiv with now at the outseet they would have been able to capitalise on the Russian army's lack of preparedness to draw frontlines much more advantageously, possibly even end the 'special operation' before it became entrenched.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      Have you thought to consider that the slowness in aiding Ukraine is a feature, not a bug?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Have you thought to consider that the slowness in aiding Ukraine is a feature, not a bug? Yes. Unless the goal is undermining American and NATO interests, it doesn't make sense. One could conclude from that corrupt motives. Hanlon's razor suggests a more parsimonious solution. (The same folks who were convinced Russia would be in Kyiv in weeks in '22, and then '23, and then '24 keep getting quoted as experts.)
      - type0 2y ago
        the feature to see as many Ukrainians dead as possible?
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        And dead Russians. The longer the war goes, the better for the US and NATO. That's the whole reason it exists in the first place.
        lovich 2y ago
        Pretty sure the war exists because Russia decided it wanted more land and resources. If you want to argue otherwise, I would need you to explain how Russia has no agency and is instead a weak puppet for everyone else. You cant have it both ways where Russia is a country that makes it own decisions, but also everything happening as a result of its actions, isn't their fault
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        there are numerous reasons and everyone has choices. I'm saying that the choices the US made were a major part of bringing about the war. It is 100% upside and the US would do it again. I think keeping NATO out of Ukraine would have been sufficient to avoid the whole conflict. That is without getting into more exotic options.
        lovich 2y ago
  - fakedang 2y ago
    Neville Chamberlain is widely looked down upon in the UK for inaction against Hitler (although one could also argue that he was buying time for the UK before it got into war economy mode). Joe Biden will be looked down upon in the future of having thrown away the presidency to a convicted criminal, in spite of all the cards being stacked in the Democratic party's favor early in the race. If Trump wins, this will be the watershed moment in history historians will look at (assuming Trump-Vance go through with Project 2025 and what they're actually campaigning, or even the general weakening of American hegemony that is to be expected - it already happened in Trump 1). Perhaps the Chamberlain analogy wasn't the right one here,but in my defence, I'm not American and not well-versed enough in American history to know if there was a past president who damaged the country by mere inaction, to draw parallels, although I think Buchanan and Andrew Johnson are (more severe) examples.
aucisson_masque 2y ago
Population being split is what Putin and other directorship wants. Ever heard about Philippe de Macédoine "divide and conquer" ? They are doing the same in Europe, because divided we wouldn't be able to merge our force and push them back. If half of America is for helping Ukraine and half against, it makes it even tougher to do anything. Not enough and people get mad about Ukrainian dying, too much and people get mad about the money spending, everytime you get chaos.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Population being split is what Putin and other directorship wants. Have you for a second give some though to the fact that it might be what the people want? If a candidate is not representing the needs of a large demographic, why would they get supported in return?Just to not leave the country dividend? lol Maybe those candidates should better aid the population they claim to serve if they don't want the country divided. People want affordable housing, healthcare, childcare and education first, before they give a shit about Ukraine. Why aren't the candidates delivering on that?
  - aucisson_masque 2y ago
    You fail to understand the difference between a society where speaking politic with your friend is a tabou because you may end up beating each other up, and one society where people speak politic everyday even if they have different view because they tolerate each other point of view. I'd argue USA is in the first case, 'either you're with me or against me'. That's a fundamentally retarded way of thinking, think middle age with its religion war, and end up blocking any possible social progress. Thats what Putin and other dictator want.

Population being split on the available options is the basis of democracy and is a feature not a bug. Otherwise we might as well just have a CCP style single party.

fakedang 2y ago

I'm sure we don't need to argue semantics here as you very well understand what I mean. The American public wasn't as divided as now. Heck, if Watergate were to have happened now, Nixon would have escaped scotch free - as Trump has. Joe Biden might even forever be remembered as the Neville Chamberlain of USA (even though Neville doesn't deserve his reputation while Biden absolutely does).

maxerickson 2y ago
What analogy are you proposing with the Chamberlain thing? Are you mad the US hasn't declared war on Russia and worried that it is going to have dire consequences for the US?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Are you mad the US hasn't declared war on Russia and worried that it is going to have dire consequences for the US? We've absolutely been slow rolling aid to Ukraine because the Biden White House bought Putin's bullshit. If we'd provided the weapons we're providing Kyiv with now at the outseet they would have been able to capitalise on the Russian army's lack of preparedness to draw frontlines much more advantageously, possibly even end the 'special operation' before it became entrenched.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Have you thought to consider that the slowness in aiding Ukraine is a feature, not a bug?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Have you thought to consider that the slowness in aiding Ukraine is a feature, not a bug? Yes. Unless the goal is undermining American and NATO interests, it doesn't make sense. One could conclude from that corrupt motives. Hanlon's razor suggests a more parsimonious solution. (The same folks who were convinced Russia would be in Kyiv in weeks in '22, and then '23, and then '24 keep getting quoted as experts.)
    - type0 2y ago
      the feature to see as many Ukrainians dead as possible?
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        And dead Russians. The longer the war goes, the better for the US and NATO. That's the whole reason it exists in the first place.
        lovich 2y ago
        Pretty sure the war exists because Russia decided it wanted more land and resources. If you want to argue otherwise, I would need you to explain how Russia has no agency and is instead a weak puppet for everyone else. You cant have it both ways where Russia is a country that makes it own decisions, but also everything happening as a result of its actions, isn't their fault
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        there are numerous reasons and everyone has choices. I'm saying that the choices the US made were a major part of bringing about the war. It is 100% upside and the US would do it again. I think keeping NATO out of Ukraine would have been sufficient to avoid the whole conflict. That is without getting into more exotic options.
        lovich 2y ago
- fakedang 2y ago
  Neville Chamberlain is widely looked down upon in the UK for inaction against Hitler (although one could also argue that he was buying time for the UK before it got into war economy mode). Joe Biden will be looked down upon in the future of having thrown away the presidency to a convicted criminal, in spite of all the cards being stacked in the Democratic party's favor early in the race. If Trump wins, this will be the watershed moment in history historians will look at (assuming Trump-Vance go through with Project 2025 and what they're actually campaigning, or even the general weakening of American hegemony that is to be expected - it already happened in Trump 1). Perhaps the Chamberlain analogy wasn't the right one here,but in my defence, I'm not American and not well-versed enough in American history to know if there was a past president who damaged the country by mere inaction, to draw parallels, although I think Buchanan and Andrew Johnson are (more severe) examples.

aucisson_masque 2y ago

Population being split is what Putin and other directorship wants. Ever heard about Philippe de Macédoine "divide and conquer" ? They are doing the same in Europe, because divided we wouldn't be able to merge our force and push them back. If half of America is for helping Ukraine and half against, it makes it even tougher to do anything. Not enough and people get mad about Ukrainian dying, too much and people get mad about the money spending, everytime you get chaos.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>Population being split is what Putin and other directorship wants. Have you for a second give some though to the fact that it might be what the people want? If a candidate is not representing the needs of a large demographic, why would they get supported in return?Just to not leave the country dividend? lol Maybe those candidates should better aid the population they claim to serve if they don't want the country divided. People want affordable housing, healthcare, childcare and education first, before they give a shit about Ukraine. Why aren't the candidates delivering on that?
- aucisson_masque 2y ago
  You fail to understand the difference between a society where speaking politic with your friend is a tabou because you may end up beating each other up, and one society where people speak politic everyday even if they have different view because they tolerate each other point of view. I'd argue USA is in the first case, 'either you're with me or against me'. That's a fundamentally retarded way of thinking, think middle age with its religion war, and end up blocking any possible social progress. Thats what Putin and other dictator want.