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The silent implication of a cheese black market is horrifying yet somewhat amusing. Imagine trying to buy stolen wheels of Parmigianino or German cheese.
by tonetegeatinst 2y ago
The silent implication of a cheese black market is horrifying yet somewhat amusing.
Imagine trying to buy stolen wheels of Parmigianino or German cheese.
- lastofthemojito 2y agoI like to imagine police had been following these guys for weeks after noting suspicious behavior, but were unable to crack the criminals' presumed code, "they keep talking about a big cheese heist and taking lots of cheddar - but what's the target, is it a bank or a museum or a jeweler?" Nope, they were just talking about stealing cheese.
- ortusdux 2y agoCounterfeiting is a major concern. Parmigianino Reggiano producers have been testing laser activated RFID chips for traceability. https://futurism.com/the-byte/cheese-tracking-chips-parmesan https://futurism.com/the-byte/cheese-tracking-chips-parmesan https://p-chip.com/about/ https://p-chip.com/about/
- thaumasiotes 2y ago> Counterfeiting is a major concern. To who? Suppose I buy some "Parmesan cheese" and it tastes exactly like Parmesan cheese. What's the problem supposed to be? In what sense is the cheese counterfeit at all?
- wormlord 2y agoParmesano Reggiano has to come from the Parma region of Italy and is certified by some consortium of cheese makers I think. Same thing with San Marzano tomatoes. There's not a problem per-se, but the issue is that in all reality you'd probably be getting an inferior product. The exclusivity is done so that consumers can be ensured that they are getting cheese from a specific area with specific criteria.
- rcruzeiro 2y agoIf you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem. We are not even taking into consideration that counterfeit food products adhere to no food safety standards.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago> If you paid for Parmesan cheese and got something else, I’d say that’s already a problem. Kind of an ironic claim in a discussion of Cheddar cheese.
- bee_rider 2y agoI guess real Parmesan cheese complies with the food safety regulations of Parma, while most knock off (for example) American brands will comply with the local food safety regulations. I mean… I dunno, it isn’t as if I actually believe my country has sane regulations. But I’ve presumably already eaten lots of American sawdust in my powdered cheese products, how bad could it be for me? What kind of sawdust do they have in Parma?
- stouset 2y agoYou might find this hard to believe, but they don’t actually put sawdust in any product labeled “parmigiano reggiano” in Parma. And it’s not just about that. “Parmesan” in the US doesn’t have to abide by… basically anything. It doesn’t need to be aged. It doesn’t need to be milk of any particular quality. It can include any ingredients. It has no definitional requirements at all, other than needing to plausibly be cheese.
- hinkley 2y agoSo you've already forgotten the melamine incident with milk products from China.
- bl4ckm0r3 2y agoProcedures and ingredients quality are not respected in counterfeit products (for example it's acceptable, in the us, for grated parmesan to have cellulose/wood pulp in it) and they still sell you the stuff at a high price. i don't think anyone died because of these products but if you take fake parmigiano it's a $2B market. https://www.foodandwine.com/news/amount-wood-pulp-grated-parmesan-cheese-may-surprise-you https://www.foodandwine.com/news/amount-wood-pulp-grated-par... https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/parmesan-cheese-versus-parmigiano-reggiano/ https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/parmesan-che... https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/11/19/the-dark-side-of-parmesan-cheese-what-you-dont-know-might-hurt-you/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/11/19/the-dar...
- Kon-Peki 2y agoPrepackaged grated parmesan needs an anti-caking additive no matter where in the world you live. Cellulose isn't bad for you, in moderation. So the issue is not whether your prepackaged parmesan has cellulose added, it's how much was added. If you don't like it then you should buy solid parmesan and grate it yourself. In the US or anywhere else.
- idiotsecant 2y agoIt's also not something unique to Parmesan, all shredded cheese has additives to prevent it turning into a cheese ball again. Kind of the nature of shredded cheese
- k4rli 2y agoWhy would European sellers hide the additives then? Especially with stricter labelling+food standards. https://iperdrive.iper.it/spesa-online/it/seriate/parmigiano-reggrattiper-200g https://iperdrive.iper.it/spesa-online/it/seriate/parmigiano...
- Kon-Peki 2y agoCongrats on finding one without cellulose. That is also possible in the US. Powdered cellulose is an Annex II food additive in the EU - E 460(ii) - and is an allowed food additive to any grated or sliced whey cheese, quantum satis (the manufacturer can use as much of it as they need to use, because it is considered harmless) [1] This is EXACTLY the same situation as the US. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-portal/screen/food-additives/search/details/POL-FAD-IMPORT-3365 https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-portal/screen/food-addit... My statement a few comments above was a brain fart :) The larger the grated pieces, the less anti-caking agents you would need. It completely slipped my mind and I suspect that the cheese linked above would be larger pieces of parmesan. Still, if exposed to the high humidity present in some parts of the US (less common in Italy), the cheese in that package would eventually become a clumpy mess if not fully consumed quickly :) You have to understand that lots of people seem to enjoy parmesan as essentially a powder. I have no idea why, that is certainly not my preference. However, there is demand for parmesan "powder" and the market therefore supplies it. Powdered cellulose is the only way to make that happen.
- School-Cotton 2y agoWhat makes you think it will actually taste exactly the same?
- ygjb 2y agoFor the example Parmesan cheese vs PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, under European law) Parmesan Reggiano cheese, the differences are in flavour and texture. It is absolutely possible to make Parmesan that matches PDO Parmesan Reggiano cheese outside of that region, but if you don't have the stamp (or counterfeit the stamp), you can't charge a premium price. The same applies to a laundry list of food ingredients and products, including wines, cheeses, teas, produce, and meat. PDO isn't the only such scheme, several countries have their own appelation programs. From a counterfeiting perspective there are three major concerns - misleading the consumer, economic harm to the cheesemakers in the region of origin, and potential food safety. In terms of misleading the consumer, mass market parmesan cheese is usually produced with pasteurized milk vs raw milk and cured for 10 months vs 24 months. It is often sold ground into a fine powder to conceal the lower quality texture, and the flavour profile is substantially different. When cooking with 10 month cured cheese vs 24 month cured cheese, there is a noticeable difference in how the cheese melts and incorporates into different foods which can result in downstream lower quality foods (in terms of presentation and flavour, nutritionally the differences are negligable). In terms of economic harm, parmesan cheese is substantially cheaper to produce, and has a retail price as low as $~0.50/ounce. PDO Parmesan ranges in price from $~1.50/ounce for 2 year aged, and as high as $~10/ounce (note my prices are converted from CAD to USD, and based on prices from the cheese market near me, prices may vary by market). If a counterfeiter can sell parmesan as PDO Parmesan Reggiano, they command a significant margin, even if they sell it much cheaper than the retail price). In terms of health risks, PDO and other Appelation designations often require audits or reviews of production process to ensure compliance and quality control. Fake PDO Parm made with unpasteurized milk and not handled properly can bring the risks of using raw milk to the consumer - properly made PDO Parm results in a cured and extremely low moisture product that should destroy most of the bacteria and molds. Even minor changes in the production process can make the resulting product unsafe or higher risk for consumption.
- maxerickson 2y agoIt's funny to get down in the weeds of the low standards of the American product when it's often sold next to a container labeled topping and mostly comprised of powdered whey.
- mattlondon 2y agoThe same could be said about anything. Clothes, watches, cars, hell even medicine. If it is indistinguishable, is it different? It starts to get a bit philosophical from there on in. I think though fakes tend to be significantly worse quality because they want to make loads of profit. I can't see cheese fraudsters going to the same lengths of maturation and all that because why bother.
- hinkley 2y agoConsumer safety is the reason we have brand name products in the first place. Mutually assured destruction if the brand starts putting lead in soap.
- singleshot_ 2y agoTo people who want to use the mark or origin to distinguish between quality goods and garbage before they buy them instead of after they taste them. You know, the primary use of a mark of origin. You may have noticed that you supposed the opposite of what I supposed, for sanity’s sake.
- jajko 2y agoLouis Vuitton fake bag may look 1:1 from good enough distance yet for some reason people keep buying them... what's the problem supposed to be? And that's before going into topic of being European and actually appreciating heritage, place of origin, craft skills etc. that go into making one of these.
- soco 2y agoGiven it was in 2022 and supposed to use blockchain, I assume the project is dead like pretty much any other industrial use of blockchain. And either way, who wants to eat DOC microchips?
- ortusdux 2y agoIn theory they were implanted in the wax coating on the outside of the rind, which is also edible but not something people would want to eat. Chunks of rind are great additions to simmering tomato sauces, just don't forget to remove it before serving!
- satvikpendem 2y agoDo you know about the maggot filled cheese from Sardinia, casu martzu? It is illegal in the EU but it is still sold illegally around the area of its inception. It's illegal because sometimes the maggots could survive in your intestines to cause damage.
- inglor_cz 2y agoEating food that can eat you back ... a real ouroboros.
- satvikpendem 2y agoPineapple is similar in that it has enzymes that digest your tongue as you eat it.
- deepfriedchokes 2y agoI bet you are fun to talk to at parties and I mean that in a good way.
- foo42 2y agoI've always disliked how my tongue feels when eating pineapple (so I rarely do) this explains it!
- saaaaaam 2y agoThis is the reason that traditionally a “gammon steak” is served grilled with pineapple. The pineapple helps tenderise the meat. Which in turn is why in the US pineapple started to be put on pizza that had ham on it.
- satvikpendem 2y agoYou can also tenderize tough cuts of steak in a marinade as well.
- hinkley 2y ago
- sampo 2y agoIn 2014 EU put sanctions on exporting certain goods to Russia, and Russia put counter-sanctions on e.g. importing European cheese to Russia. But Russian people still wantef higher quality cheese, so smuggling cheese across the Finnish-Russian border was quite common in the years following. But this is only 100kg: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/oltermanni-salakuljettaja-jai-kiinni-tullissa-yritti-vieda-lahes-sata-kiloa-juustoa-rajan-yli/6531444 https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/oltermanni-salakuljettaj...
- trhway 2y agomore typical since 2014 the situation of the goods like Norwegian salmon disappearing from the Russian market while the goods that were never there until 2014 like Belarussian salmon (while Belarussia is still landlocked :) quickly becoming available in large volumes on Russian market. Similarly with Armenian electronics which never been there until 2022.
- deepfriedchokes 2y agoThat’s crazy where do they sell these black market cheeses anyway? Asking for a friend.
- drewcoo 2y agoRestaurants. Grocers. Cheese shops. Businesses with tight margins that might be willing to consider something that "fell off a truck." You'd have to be pretty bad at reselling to resort to selling it out of the back of a car.
- fecal_henge 2y agoObligatory mental image of someone opening mackintosh to reveal suspended cheeses inside.