3 ms·

Which came first in your mind? Are you trying to go back to 1948 here? I mean why stop there we could say this is all stems from the assassination of Franz Ferd

by erentz 2y ago

Which came first in your mind? Are you trying to go back to 1948 here? I mean why stop there we could say this is all stems from the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to the invasion of and break up of the Ottomon empire. But we have to live in the reality we have today. In this reality Hezbollah started attacking Israel after Oct 7 in support of Hamas’s attack on Israel. But for that happening Israel would not be invading southern Lebanon to try and put and end to these attacks now. There is nothing at all wrong with criticizing Israel, I am deeply annoyed with a lot they do, the right wing element and the West Bank settlers are really ruining the ability to reach a two state solution. (Palestinian leaders also share blame in not reaching this outcome too sadly.) The problem is that people so often have double standards and expectations of Israelis they would never apply to anyone else. And they definitely never seem to have similar expectations for Hezbollah or Hamas. This isn’t constructive and gets kind of antisemitic after a while (Jews are different, hence unrealistic expectations, they should just take the rocket fire and never respond). It’s a weird lack of empathizing with Israelis as also being real humans behaving as real humans anywhere would. This really doesn’t help bring about any kind of peace.

ahdignfndj 2y ago
Just because other countries started by brutally colonizing the natives does not mean we should let Israel continue doing it. A true solution requires some admission of guilt on their end for the past century of death and destruction and a path forward that creates a state that is not tied to Jewish identity. Much like other western nations, they will have to learn to deal with a diverse population by abandoning their previous culture and religion.
- erentz 2y ago
  Israel is simply not going to decide to cease to exist. People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. They’re not going to say “sure take my house” any more than you would. This kind of thing is entirely magical thinking that can only happen because you aren’t able to generate any kind of empathy for people living in Israel. Kids born in the West Bank or Gaza today are not helped to have a better future by this kind of thinking you’re pushing here.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. Which is fine, because the parent isn't suggesting that they do anything of the sort.
    - erentz 2y ago
      The parent is suggesting a single state solution and giving this is the context of Hezbollah, the right of return. (Hezbollah is not in Palestine.) Nobody on this planet would make that deal with groups who have the goal of destroying your country. If Hamas had been a peaceful group, democracy had taken hold in Gaza, it had existed peacefully with Israel, had never had the aim of destroying Israel, then yeah, you might be able to imagine a future where the two merge and live harmoniously. But that is not reality today.
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        You're projecting more into the commenter's words than is actually to be found in them, it seems. It's quite cleare Hamas needs to be marginalized and taken out of the picture (along with its spiritual companions in the 37th Government) before anything can move forward, but that's a separate issue.
        erentz 2y ago
        What are they saying then? I am interpreting them in the context of this discussion which is on Hezbollah’s attacks on Israel and Israel’s response. You seem to imply they are pointing to internal matters to Israel, not Hezbollahs aims. In which case it’s a total non sequitur comment. Or are you or they, suggesting Hezbollahs aims (given Hezbollah is what we are discussing) simply to reform internal issues within Israel and that is their reason for launching 10,000 rockets at them? I think you know that’s not the case.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        My reading of their post is that it was putting the current Hezbollah context to the side and addressing the bigger picture in terms of what, in their view, Israel should do (if it wants to have a just and lasting peace and other nice things).

by erentz 2y ago

ahdignfndj 2y ago

Just because other countries started by brutally colonizing the natives does not mean we should let Israel continue doing it. A true solution requires some admission of guilt on their end for the past century of death and destruction and a path forward that creates a state that is not tied to Jewish identity. Much like other western nations, they will have to learn to deal with a diverse population by abandoning their previous culture and religion.

erentz 2y ago
Israel is simply not going to decide to cease to exist. People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. They’re not going to say “sure take my house” any more than you would. This kind of thing is entirely magical thinking that can only happen because you aren’t able to generate any kind of empathy for people living in Israel. Kids born in the West Bank or Gaza today are not helped to have a better future by this kind of thinking you’re pushing here.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. Which is fine, because the parent isn't suggesting that they do anything of the sort.
  - erentz 2y ago
    The parent is suggesting a single state solution and giving this is the context of Hezbollah, the right of return. (Hezbollah is not in Palestine.) Nobody on this planet would make that deal with groups who have the goal of destroying your country. If Hamas had been a peaceful group, democracy had taken hold in Gaza, it had existed peacefully with Israel, had never had the aim of destroying Israel, then yeah, you might be able to imagine a future where the two merge and live harmoniously. But that is not reality today.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      You're projecting more into the commenter's words than is actually to be found in them, it seems. It's quite cleare Hamas needs to be marginalized and taken out of the picture (along with its spiritual companions in the 37th Government) before anything can move forward, but that's a separate issue.
      - erentz 2y ago
        What are they saying then? I am interpreting them in the context of this discussion which is on Hezbollah’s attacks on Israel and Israel’s response. You seem to imply they are pointing to internal matters to Israel, not Hezbollahs aims. In which case it’s a total non sequitur comment. Or are you or they, suggesting Hezbollahs aims (given Hezbollah is what we are discussing) simply to reform internal issues within Israel and that is their reason for launching 10,000 rockets at them? I think you know that’s not the case.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        My reading of their post is that it was putting the current Hezbollah context to the side and addressing the bigger picture in terms of what, in their view, Israel should do (if it wants to have a just and lasting peace and other nice things).