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Yeah, same. I'm all up for a "free country", and all that. But this was just absurd. I wonder if 30+ years don't the line, if maybe resources are scarcer, we'll

by Faaak 2y ago

Yeah, same. I'm all up for a "free country", and all that. But this was just absurd. I wonder if 30+ years don't the line, if maybe resources are scarcer, we'll think about these and say: "we were fucking crazy"

exe34 2y ago
at least we'll mine them. with helium, we put it in party balloons and lose it to space.
- r2_pilot 2y ago
  There's plenty of helium in the solar system (granted, a bit further out) and the sun is producing 595 million tons per second.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Let me guess, you have plans that to mine that helium by working at night?
  - exe34 2y ago
    yes, and it'll be very easy to capture in commercial quantities, I'm sure.
    - r2_pilot 2y ago
      What, you've never heard of star-lifting? Or just getting it from Saturn? Commercial/economic quantities are all about the necessity versus scarcity, and helium has unique properties that can't be synthesized in sufficient quantities even if you ran all of Earth off fusion of hydrogen into helium.
      - exe34 2y ago
        > Or just getting it from Saturn? always love a good laugh in the morning! I'm as much a fan of sci-fi as anybody, and the last 5 years of space x should make anybody optimistic about the future of space exploration, but strip mining Saturn is a long way away from providing for the needs of MRI machines and other essential modern technology. what will happen first is that the prices will rise and we will stop using it in party balloons, and then it'll be too expensive for the lower 95% of the population for any use at all for decades/centuries - and that's even if we do manage to escape the local gravity well for good. even that's doubtful - space is just unbelievably hostile.
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
I dunno. The earth is pretty big, and vape batteries are tiny, and we keep finding substitutes. I'm all for reducing waste, but it seems unlikely we'll run out of metals in our lifetimes. Keep in mind, things keep getting more efficient, and rich nations are finally tending toward using LESS per capita. Sure, the poor nations might eventually become rich and the global population has not yet peeked, but there's no reason to assume our materials usage will grow exponentially forever. And, even if you assumed we were going to run out of whatever is in these tiny vape pens - the percentage of all usage going to tiny applications like this is a rounding error. It's not what you would attack if you really wanted to move the needle. You'd probably try to reduce the number of people buying new cars, for example.
- Vegenoid 2y ago
  > in our lifetimes Is the key here. We need to think beyond our lifetimes. We should be treating the earth like we're going to live on it for (tens or hundreds of) thousands of years, because I sure as shit hope we (meaning humans) are going to. Yes, reducing creation of cars would certainly have a much bigger impact, and should be done. But it's also a lot harder than dealing with vapes. Anyway, as far as I understand it, the main reason this is happening isn't happening to reduce waste, it's happening to stop a rise in nicotine consumption in children. Preventing waste is more of a nice side effect.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
dotBen 2y ago
The UK isn't a 'free country' in the way American's use the term. It took me a few years of living in America to understand the nuance. I think the 'freedoms' Americans have raises it's own problems for society (eg guns) and there isn't a right or wrong, just different. The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't, in Europe everything is illegal unless the government legislates to say you can. :D
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  That's just nonsense.
- immibis 2y ago
  That's the joke they made about the Soviet Union; it's inaccurate for Europe. But in Europe the government isn't afraid to make things illegal.
- seneca 2y ago
  > The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't, in Europe everything is illegal unless the government legislates to say you can. That's pretty good. It's a succinct contrast of the difference between a citizen and a subject.
- asplake 2y ago
  > The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't Guess where the US got that from? Yes, the UK, and it still applies.
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    I think you're forgetting something called the CONSTITUTION which gives a number of rights that one doesn't have in the UK like -Freedom of expression (can't be arrested for social media posts, can't easily get sued into the ground for libel[0]) -Right to bear arms (technically legal for citizens to organize their own militant force, though often discouraged) -Right to remain silent (it is always advised to never talk to the police under any circumstances). [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act
ryandvm 2y ago
I have a different thought about that kind of stuff in that in 100 years or so landfills will probably be literal gold mines (or whatever else you're looking for).

by Faaak 2y ago

exe34 2y ago

at least we'll mine them. with helium, we put it in party balloons and lose it to space.

r2_pilot 2y ago
There's plenty of helium in the solar system (granted, a bit further out) and the sun is producing 595 million tons per second.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Let me guess, you have plans that to mine that helium by working at night?
- exe34 2y ago
  yes, and it'll be very easy to capture in commercial quantities, I'm sure.
  - r2_pilot 2y ago
    What, you've never heard of star-lifting? Or just getting it from Saturn? Commercial/economic quantities are all about the necessity versus scarcity, and helium has unique properties that can't be synthesized in sufficient quantities even if you ran all of Earth off fusion of hydrogen into helium.
    - exe34 2y ago
      > Or just getting it from Saturn? always love a good laugh in the morning! I'm as much a fan of sci-fi as anybody, and the last 5 years of space x should make anybody optimistic about the future of space exploration, but strip mining Saturn is a long way away from providing for the needs of MRI machines and other essential modern technology. what will happen first is that the prices will rise and we will stop using it in party balloons, and then it'll be too expensive for the lower 95% of the population for any use at all for decades/centuries - and that's even if we do manage to escape the local gravity well for good. even that's doubtful - space is just unbelievably hostile.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

I dunno. The earth is pretty big, and vape batteries are tiny, and we keep finding substitutes. I'm all for reducing waste, but it seems unlikely we'll run out of metals in our lifetimes. Keep in mind, things keep getting more efficient, and rich nations are finally tending toward using LESS per capita. Sure, the poor nations might eventually become rich and the global population has not yet peeked, but there's no reason to assume our materials usage will grow exponentially forever. And, even if you assumed we were going to run out of whatever is in these tiny vape pens - the percentage of all usage going to tiny applications like this is a rounding error. It's not what you would attack if you really wanted to move the needle. You'd probably try to reduce the number of people buying new cars, for example.

Vegenoid 2y ago
> in our lifetimes Is the key here. We need to think beyond our lifetimes. We should be treating the earth like we're going to live on it for (tens or hundreds of) thousands of years, because I sure as shit hope we (meaning humans) are going to. Yes, reducing creation of cars would certainly have a much bigger impact, and should be done. But it's also a lot harder than dealing with vapes. Anyway, as far as I understand it, the main reason this is happening isn't happening to reduce waste, it's happening to stop a rise in nicotine consumption in children. Preventing waste is more of a nice side effect.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

dotBen 2y ago

The UK isn't a 'free country' in the way American's use the term. It took me a few years of living in America to understand the nuance. I think the 'freedoms' Americans have raises it's own problems for society (eg guns) and there isn't a right or wrong, just different. The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't, in Europe everything is illegal unless the government legislates to say you can. :D

ninalanyon 2y ago
That's just nonsense.
immibis 2y ago
That's the joke they made about the Soviet Union; it's inaccurate for Europe. But in Europe the government isn't afraid to make things illegal.
seneca 2y ago
> The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't, in Europe everything is illegal unless the government legislates to say you can. That's pretty good. It's a succinct contrast of the difference between a citizen and a subject.
asplake 2y ago
> The joke I always like to make is that in the US everything is legal unless the government legislates to say you can't Guess where the US got that from? Yes, the UK, and it still applies.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  I think you're forgetting something called the CONSTITUTION which gives a number of rights that one doesn't have in the UK like -Freedom of expression (can't be arrested for social media posts, can't easily get sued into the ground for libel[0]) -Right to bear arms (technically legal for citizens to organize their own militant force, though often discouraged) -Right to remain silent (it is always advised to never talk to the police under any circumstances). [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act

ryandvm 2y ago

I have a different thought about that kind of stuff in that in 100 years or so landfills will probably be literal gold mines (or whatever else you're looking for).