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Interestingly enough, the source[0] comparing the andean evolution and the tibetan evolution which are a bit different - which makes this a case of convergent e

• echelon 2y ago
  > the air is toxic. Oxygen is the oxadative species that drives our biochemistry. It's a fuel. Oxygen is highly reactive. It is a fantastic evolutionary gradient as it has tons of free and readily available energy to harness. But of course it's also what also wears us down by putting oxidative stress on our cells, DNA, and molecular biology. It causes all sorts of damage as a byproduct of what it is. Oxygen is life and death. The particulates suspended in the air are yet another problem ...
• blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > We breathe it enough, we die. Isn’t this true of anything in excess? For gases - nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc all have this effect. In fact some states are using nitrogen for executions, although it’s not exactly humane (warning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Kenneth_Eugene_Smith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Kenneth_Eugene_Sm...).
  • thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > gases - nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc all have this effect What effect are you talking about? Those gases all have very different, unrelated effects. > In fact some states are using nitrogen for executions The nitrogen isn't harmful; the cause of death is the amount of oxygen (zero), not the amount of nitrogen (slightly more than normal). > although it’s not exactly humane That's just propaganda. Exceptionally dishonest propaganda. You should be ashamed to repeat it.
    • blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      > That's just propaganda. Exceptionally dishonest propaganda. Cool. Got any reasoning as to why? Here’s mine: [quote] An autopsy of Smith's body was conducted by the Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences. The autopsy showed Smith exhibited signs of negative-pressure pulmonary edema, had "dark maroon blood" and fluid present in his lungs along with "marked congestion", and had "frothy fluid" in his trachea. Another death row inmate scheduled to die by nitrogen hypoxia in Alabama in November 2024, Carey Dale Grayson, hired an expert to analyze Smith's autopsy results in August 2024. After a review, the expert called the results "highly concerning."[33][34] Dr. Brian McAlary, an anesthesiologist, wrote in an argument on Grayson's behalf that Smith likely panicked due to an automatic response to the inability to breathe oxygen and that Smith's panic may have been avoided if he had been given a sedative prior to his execution. A second expert, Dr. Thomas Andrew, the chief medical examiner of New Hampshire, agreed that Smith should have been sedated before his execution because nitrogen hypoxia introduces "a sense of the absence of oxygen, air hunger, and all of the panic and discomfort that is part and parcel of that way of dying."[34] Volker Türk, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, condemned Alabama's use of nitrogen gas to administer Smith's death penalty and stated that the method had amounted to a potential form of torture and degrading punishment.[35][36] [end quote] > You should be ashamed to repeat it. Such ad hominem attacks are against the site guidelines.
      • thaumasiotes 2y ago
        > Such ad hominem attacks are against the site guidelines. That actually isn't an ad hominem attack. But you can have one anyway: you are clearly not even slightly concerned with whether the things you say are true. Doing any amount of research would immediately show you that you are - in the very most charitable interpretation - acting as a useful idiot for ideologues. Stop trying to spread blatant falsehoods. > Dr. Brian McAlary, an anesthesiologist, wrote in an argument on Grayson's behalf that Smith likely panicked due to an automatic response to the inability to breathe oxygen This is impossible, since no such response exists. The only breathing-related automatic response that humans have is that they become distressed in the presence of excessive carbon dioxide. That is why every industry that may potentially expose people to low-oxygen environments endlessly repeats the warning: if you go into an atmosphere of all nitrogen (or any other non-oxygen gas, but most commonly nitrogen), you will die without ever realizing that anything is wrong. If you see your friend collapse, do not attempt to rescue them, because you will die too. That is what people who are rescued from low-oxygen environments report, and it's what is universally observed in the case where somebody is in a position to observe. There is no perceptible difference between breathable air, and air that contains neither oxygen nor carbon dioxide. > A second expert, Dr. Thomas Andrew, the chief medical examiner of New Hampshire, agreed that Smith should have been sedated before his execution because nitrogen hypoxia introduces "a sense of the absence of oxygen, air hunger, and all of the panic and discomfort that is part and parcel of that way of dying. Again, this is known to be false, and since both of these people have medical credentials, we can safely say that they are knowingly lying. But you should aspire to be better than they are. There is no such thing as "a sense of the absence of oxygen"; that is not something that humans can feel.
• thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > the andean evolution and the tibetan evolution which are a bit different - which makes this a case of convergent evolution. Only in function; they're very different in form. The Tibetan suite of adaptations uses more efficient hemoglobin; the Andean suite uses larger amounts of hemoglobin. This is generally explained as reflecting the much, much, much, much greater age of the Tibetan suite. There is a third standard example of a suite of high-altitude adaptations in humans, found in Ethiopian highlanders. For whatever reason, it sees almost 100% less discussion.
  • o11c 2y ago
    > third standard example Probably because people don't think of Africa as having much extended elevation. And by-and-large, the continent is pretty flat (only Australia and Europe-ignoring-the-Alps are flatter). It's very difficult to find (or even define) a list of non-mountain high points in the world, but "average elevation of country" (which is only unreasonable for a handful of the largest countries) is easier to find, and Ethiopia is only around 19th place in such lists (17th if we exclude Greenland and Antarctica which are not actually countries), not even the highest in Africa.