8 ms·

Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

140 points by erickhill 14y ago

revelation 14y ago
This article fails to mention that the FBI has illegally copied and extradited out of NZ jurisdiction the vast amount of data gained in the illegal raid on his home.
- pgrote 14y ago
  This is what amazes me. For a civil case another country has just run all over another country's laws.
  - aidenn0 14y ago
    It's a criminal case actually; commercial copyright infringement is criminal in the US (non-commercial is civil).
vtry 14y ago
Kim Dotcom for the rest of us.
kiba 14y ago
To me, he went from being a "victim that is also a douchebag" when he seems to be doomed to "antihero" as soon he's started winning. That being said, I don't have any problem with the services that megaupload is providing even if it tremendously anger copyright holders.
- Iscariott 14y ago
  I agree. Personally, the man seems like an ass of the highest caliber but I don't feel the service he provided warranted a raid. A great example of misuse of power and questionable priorities.
  - stfu 14y ago
    His personality might be a bit "problematic", but eccentric entrepreneurs have always been around, from Howard Hughes to Larry Ellison in his best better days.
ktizo 14y ago
Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely unlawful). This way round it looks as though they could lose badly on all counts and make themselves look like malicious and incompetent fools in the process while simultaneously souring US relationships with their political allies. Perhaps they are just malicious and incompetent fools however. It would certainly seem to be the simplest explanation for the current situation.
- aninteger 14y ago
  Hollywood should do what Hollywood does best. I'm still waiting for the movie "based on a true story".
  - ktizo 14y ago
    Is that the version where Kim is a muslim cleric who is trying to destroy America from a secret volcano in Iceland?
    - accountswu 14y ago
      And Biden is going to save America from Barrack Hussein? :) http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/kim-dotcom-says-megaupload-shutdown-was-joe-bidens-idea/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/kim-dotcom-says-m...
- shin_lao 14y ago
  What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws, but is it that immoral? The problem to me is the amount of physical violence he endured, compared to the amount of physical violence he caused. It's as if the police would beat down someone who didn't tip a street performer.
Tangaroa 14y ago
He's a hero because he let people warez and they lost their favorite source for warez when his system was shut down. Everything else -- the FBI fuckups, the legitimate users losing data, and so on -- is a secondary justification for supporting a warez site. Those issues can be opposed on their own without making the warezer-in-chief into a hero.
- icebraining 14y ago
  That's certainly an important part, but I think it ignores the natural tendency for considering "the enemy of my enemy, my friend". He is (not by choice, but still) fighting the US government, particularly in an area where many perceive the latter to be bound by lobbies. That's enough to make him seem like a knight in shiny armor. Personally, I'd like for both to lose ;)
  - stfu 14y ago
    Plus the difference is, that he is putting himself out there and for the first time giving a face to the "fight".
- epoxyhockey 14y ago
  Actually, from my perspective (and from someone who only knew about megaupload through their music video), he is a hero because he's actually fighting the egregious injustices brought on by the US. I could not have cared less about the man until I read about how little due process had been involved leading up to the raid on his home. There is something fundamentally wrong when one of the most powerful countries in the world can't use due process to arrest someone violating a copyright law.
- s_henry_paulson 14y ago
  No, he's a hero because he's standing up to illegal practices by the US government and entertainment industry that can go as far as strong-arming another nation into breaking their own laws at their behest. Of course there is pirated stuff on MegaUpload, there's pirated stuff on every cloud hosting service.. every single one of them. Anecdotally, I use Google Docs and Dropbox to share music with people, should the government raid them and take all of their servers? Whether or not you feel this is a piracy hub is beside the point, because if there was a reason to shut the site down, the people responsible should be able to present evidence of criminal activity in order to justify their actions. The fact that they undertook a military raid, and tried to collect evidence after the fact is a clear sign that they did not have a strong case to begin with. More than anything he's becoming a hero because the RIAA and MPAA have been using lawsuits to demand hundreds of thousands of dollars from middle-class parents, the elderly, and many others who are often innocent of crimes they are accused of. This has become a rallying point for many to stand up to these organizations tactics, because it's only been a one-sided battle using questionable practices for the past decade.
aw3c2 14y ago
Be aware that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz is missing the bits about how he ran some piracy and carding BBSs back in the days and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users. I would not be surprised if Megaupload kept logs of everything for this purpose as well.
- Gring 14y ago
  That's very interesting. Do you have any sources to back this up?
  - aw3c2 14y ago
    It is common knowledge in the german hacker scene. See the german wikipedia article for references and further links.
- cygx 14y ago
  > and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users Not only did he try to sneak his way out of trouble, he actually tried to make a profit by selling his insider information. The obituary to Gravenreuth (the lawyer he teamed up with) by gulli.com[1] has some information about what Schmitz' was up to in the 90s. [1] http://www.gulli.com/news/12565-nachruf-guenter-freiherr-von-gravenreuth-2010-02-22 http://www.gulli.com/news/12565-nachruf-guenter-freiherr-von... (German)
TimJRobinson 14y ago
Can't say I like the company, it's good that a lot of their files are legitimate but they really didn't care about pirated files in the slightest. One of my friends ran a company selling physical software and hired outside help to find and serve DMCA notices to sites hosting cracked full versions of the software. Megaupload generally complied with the notices but every single time the file was taken down it was put up again a few days later (the exact same file with the exact same file size). They could have implemented even a very basic md5 check to stop this from happening but they chose not to because they knew it would bring more profits if they didn't.
02good 14y ago
Does the punishment match the crime? Not all countries have the same penal system for copyright infringement. This of course does not favor the US. Where is ACTA when we need it? ;) Even under US law, criminal copyright infringement only carries a maximum of 5 years. Legal experts correct me if I'm wrong. Can we assume that's not 5 years per item? Now, assuming that's true, what if he does not get the max penalty? A couple of years is not too severe. Why not just sue him for damages? He has assets. He can pay. It makes a lot more sense. The answer is likely because they are trying to send a message. Why do they need to send a message? Isn't getting sued for millions enough of a message? Let the readers answer that one. So, what can we do if a sentence of a few years is not scary enough? We can allege a "conspiracy". A "mega conspiracy". Then we can accuse him of racketeering. And the sentence can be much longer. The whole thing is just a little over the top. They should have just sued him, taken his assets and left him a broke hacker. Instead they want to brand him a serious criminal. Not just a petty one. People are not buying it. What they see is overzealousness. The punishment does not match the crime. So he becomes a hero. Interesting.
nmridul 14y ago
This is what scared me from the article. “Two helicopters and 76 heavily armed officers to arrest a man alleged of copyright crimes — think about that,” he wrote. “Hollywood is importing their movie scripts into the real world and sends armed forces to protect their outdated business model.” What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ?
- J3L2404 14y ago
  >What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ? Take it up with New Zealand. Though you can hardly blame them as Kim is clearly a nutjob.

140 points by erickhill 14y ago

This article fails to mention that the FBI has illegally copied and extradited out of NZ jurisdiction the vast amount of data gained in the illegal raid on his home.

pgrote 14y ago
This is what amazes me. For a civil case another country has just run all over another country's laws.
- aidenn0 14y ago
  It's a criminal case actually; commercial copyright infringement is criminal in the US (non-commercial is civil).

vtry 14y ago

Kim Dotcom for the rest of us.

kiba 14y ago

To me, he went from being a "victim that is also a douchebag" when he seems to be doomed to "antihero" as soon he's started winning. That being said, I don't have any problem with the services that megaupload is providing even if it tremendously anger copyright holders.

Iscariott 14y ago
I agree. Personally, the man seems like an ass of the highest caliber but I don't feel the service he provided warranted a raid. A great example of misuse of power and questionable priorities.
- stfu 14y ago
  His personality might be a bit "problematic", but eccentric entrepreneurs have always been around, from Howard Hughes to Larry Ellison in his best better days.

ktizo 14y ago

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely unlawful). This way round it looks as though they could lose badly on all counts and make themselves look like malicious and incompetent fools in the process while simultaneously souring US relationships with their political allies. Perhaps they are just malicious and incompetent fools however. It would certainly seem to be the simplest explanation for the current situation.

aninteger 14y ago
Hollywood should do what Hollywood does best. I'm still waiting for the movie "based on a true story".
- ktizo 14y ago
  Is that the version where Kim is a muslim cleric who is trying to destroy America from a secret volcano in Iceland?
  - accountswu 14y ago
    And Biden is going to save America from Barrack Hussein? :) http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/kim-dotcom-says-megaupload-shutdown-was-joe-bidens-idea/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/kim-dotcom-says-m...
shin_lao 14y ago
What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws, but is it that immoral? The problem to me is the amount of physical violence he endured, compared to the amount of physical violence he caused. It's as if the police would beat down someone who didn't tip a street performer.

Tangaroa 14y ago

He's a hero because he let people warez and they lost their favorite source for warez when his system was shut down. Everything else -- the FBI fuckups, the legitimate users losing data, and so on -- is a secondary justification for supporting a warez site. Those issues can be opposed on their own without making the warezer-in-chief into a hero.

icebraining 14y ago
That's certainly an important part, but I think it ignores the natural tendency for considering "the enemy of my enemy, my friend". He is (not by choice, but still) fighting the US government, particularly in an area where many perceive the latter to be bound by lobbies. That's enough to make him seem like a knight in shiny armor. Personally, I'd like for both to lose ;)
- stfu 14y ago
  Plus the difference is, that he is putting himself out there and for the first time giving a face to the "fight".
epoxyhockey 14y ago
Actually, from my perspective (and from someone who only knew about megaupload through their music video), he is a hero because he's actually fighting the egregious injustices brought on by the US. I could not have cared less about the man until I read about how little due process had been involved leading up to the raid on his home. There is something fundamentally wrong when one of the most powerful countries in the world can't use due process to arrest someone violating a copyright law.
s_henry_paulson 14y ago
No, he's a hero because he's standing up to illegal practices by the US government and entertainment industry that can go as far as strong-arming another nation into breaking their own laws at their behest. Of course there is pirated stuff on MegaUpload, there's pirated stuff on every cloud hosting service.. every single one of them. Anecdotally, I use Google Docs and Dropbox to share music with people, should the government raid them and take all of their servers? Whether or not you feel this is a piracy hub is beside the point, because if there was a reason to shut the site down, the people responsible should be able to present evidence of criminal activity in order to justify their actions. The fact that they undertook a military raid, and tried to collect evidence after the fact is a clear sign that they did not have a strong case to begin with. More than anything he's becoming a hero because the RIAA and MPAA have been using lawsuits to demand hundreds of thousands of dollars from middle-class parents, the elderly, and many others who are often innocent of crimes they are accused of. This has become a rallying point for many to stand up to these organizations tactics, because it's only been a one-sided battle using questionable practices for the past decade.

aw3c2 14y ago

Be aware that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz is missing the bits about how he ran some piracy and carding BBSs back in the days and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users. I would not be surprised if Megaupload kept logs of everything for this purpose as well.

Gring 14y ago
That's very interesting. Do you have any sources to back this up?
- aw3c2 14y ago
  It is common knowledge in the german hacker scene. See the german wikipedia article for references and further links.
cygx 14y ago
> and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users Not only did he try to sneak his way out of trouble, he actually tried to make a profit by selling his insider information. The obituary to Gravenreuth (the lawyer he teamed up with) by gulli.com[1] has some information about what Schmitz' was up to in the 90s. [1] http://www.gulli.com/news/12565-nachruf-guenter-freiherr-von-gravenreuth-2010-02-22 http://www.gulli.com/news/12565-nachruf-guenter-freiherr-von... (German)

TimJRobinson 14y ago

Can't say I like the company, it's good that a lot of their files are legitimate but they really didn't care about pirated files in the slightest. One of my friends ran a company selling physical software and hired outside help to find and serve DMCA notices to sites hosting cracked full versions of the software. Megaupload generally complied with the notices but every single time the file was taken down it was put up again a few days later (the exact same file with the exact same file size). They could have implemented even a very basic md5 check to stop this from happening but they chose not to because they knew it would bring more profits if they didn't.

02good 14y ago

Does the punishment match the crime? Not all countries have the same penal system for copyright infringement. This of course does not favor the US. Where is ACTA when we need it? ;) Even under US law, criminal copyright infringement only carries a maximum of 5 years. Legal experts correct me if I'm wrong. Can we assume that's not 5 years per item? Now, assuming that's true, what if he does not get the max penalty? A couple of years is not too severe. Why not just sue him for damages? He has assets. He can pay. It makes a lot more sense. The answer is likely because they are trying to send a message. Why do they need to send a message? Isn't getting sued for millions enough of a message? Let the readers answer that one. So, what can we do if a sentence of a few years is not scary enough? We can allege a "conspiracy". A "mega conspiracy". Then we can accuse him of racketeering. And the sentence can be much longer. The whole thing is just a little over the top. They should have just sued him, taken his assets and left him a broke hacker. Instead they want to brand him a serious criminal. Not just a petty one. People are not buying it. What they see is overzealousness. The punishment does not match the crime. So he becomes a hero. Interesting.

nmridul 14y ago

This is what scared me from the article. “Two helicopters and 76 heavily armed officers to arrest a man alleged of copyright crimes — think about that,” he wrote. “Hollywood is importing their movie scripts into the real world and sends armed forces to protect their outdated business model.” What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ?

J3L2404 14y ago
>What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ? Take it up with New Zealand. Though you can hardly blame them as Kim is clearly a nutjob.