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The fact that so many of the comments replying to yours are quick to defend Apple says it all really. Developers will put up with more crap than they should wh

by EnderMB 14y ago

The fact that so many of the comments replying to yours are quick to defend Apple says it all really. Developers will put up with more crap than they should when platform religion gets in the way. Sure, there are arguments against switching platforms to Android or Windows, but most of these mean very little. Those that refuse to ditch iOS aren't doing so because they'll miss out on potential customers, it's because they like the idea of building apps for the most popular phone on the market, despite the crap they have to put up with. It's the equivalent of dating a bitchy model. You could be a lot happier with the cute girl next door, but you'd rather put up with her shit just because you can say to your mates "I go out with a model".

bradshaw1965 14y ago
... Those that refuse to ditch iOS aren't doing so because they'll miss out on potential customers, it's because they like the idea of building apps for the most popular phone on the market, despite the crap they have to put up with. ... Trying to assess peoples motivations is unlikely to be accurate or useful.
- ineedtosleep 14y ago
  > Trying to assess peoples motivations is unlikely to be accurate or useful.
- EnderMB 14y ago
  How else do we come to a meaningful conclusion when posed the question "why won't iOS app developers leave the platform if the conditions are so poor" if it's not from assessing the motivations of those that build them?
  - bradshaw1965 14y ago
    >>>Conditons are so poor<<< is your interpretation. It does not take a mass delusion Stockholm syndrome sort of interpretation to figure out that a lot of developers get great satisfaction working on the platform. I'm sure to a person there are things they dislike and would change, but that doesn't mean they are being abused. It's much easier when you accept that people have different opinions about just about everything and that those differing opinions don't always indicate a lack of reason or ulterior motive.
    - EnderMB 14y ago
      That's a poor argument when so many people express this opinion. If any developers get satisfaction working on the platform it's because they like the platform; again a personal preference rather than a solid reason for believing Apple's development platforms are up to par with, say, Microsoft's .NET platform.
      - bradshaw1965 14y ago
        ...are up to par with... We disagree on use of language so we won't be able to reach agreement.
sedev 14y ago
"Platform religion"? That's a bit rich considering that the iOS app store is where developers can make money. I think that's a far, far more powerful motivating factor than "platform religion." The Blackberry had plenty of fervent followers and advocates: look where that got them. Also, comparing Mac/iOS users to members of a religion is the oldest, saggiest, most lackluster thought-terminating-cliche in the book. Come off it already.
- EnderMB 14y ago
  Are you from the US? If so, you can make money on the Android market quite easily. The idea that iOS is the only platform that can make money is a very dated idea, and one that never really had any merit in the first place. There's a reason why the cliche exists, because it is true. The biggest truths in this world are the obvious ones, not the exciting ones. You pick a platform on perceived value and it's likely that your gut feeling (along with the crowd) will lead you to Apple. If I'm wrong, then why aren't developers ditching Apple? Why is no one boycotting a platform that is happy to litigate, rather than innovate? Why are there so many weak money-related excuses to not developing for Android? It's because of personal belief, and it is your personal belief that iOS is better and will make you more money. By that logic, we'd all set up shop in silicon valley, otherwise working would just be pointless...
  - qq66 14y ago
    We are building LiveLoop's mobile client for iOS, and not Android, for monetary reasons, and I feel that I can justify this easily. First of all, the cost of developing for Android, for us, would be higher, because our code to render slides is somewhat resolution-dependent and iDevices come in fewer resolution variants than Android devices. One could make the claim that we should be doing everything in a completely resolution-adaptive way, but we haven't. Second, developing for iPhone gives you the iPad for a negligible development cost, giving you access to the tablet market where Android does not have a meaningful presence yet. The great thing about the tablet market is that people spend more money on similar-functionality apps for iPad than for iPhone. Third, the fact of the matter is that while you can make money on the Android market, the revenue economics of iOS apps are currently completely dominating Android. Both upfront and recurring revenue is higher on iOS. We don't have any qualms about leaving Android on the table today -- obviously, changes in any of these three premises, or huge growth in Android marketshare on tabloid and handheld, could change this.
taligent 14y ago
This could well be the most deluded comment I've seen yet on HN. And I am going to take a guess that you are either (a) not a developer or (b) have never made an app. Because those that have understand that you do not put in the hundreds and hundreds of hours for nothing. You don't do out of some misguided dedication to Steve Jobs, Apple or because you want to be cool. You do it because you have a family to feed, want to make some extra money (iOS is far more profitable) or just make people happy (iOS users are far less likely to pirate).
- alttab 14y ago
  Personally I wouldn't develop for iOS because "I have a family to feed." Selling apps on the app store has to got to be one of the trickiest things developers for the platform have to put up with - as discoverability is part timing, part luck, and less marketing than most would prefer. Also, if your app gets pulled, gets rejected, or you have trouble getting a new version out for whatever reason, the lack of straight-forward communication with Apple could be dangerous if you have other mouths depending on that income. My roommate worked for an iPhone game company and he and many other developers got laid off when one of their games got rejected.
- EnderMB 14y ago
  I am a developer (web dev by day), and I have developed and published apps that are on the respective marketplaces for Android, Apple and Blackerry. Regardless of my credentials, if you're relying on building apps to feed your family then I highly suggest that you find yourself a proper job before they starve. I've known enough people jump on the app bandwagon and drag themselves into the dirt.

by EnderMB 14y ago

bradshaw1965 14y ago

... Those that refuse to ditch iOS aren't doing so because they'll miss out on potential customers, it's because they like the idea of building apps for the most popular phone on the market, despite the crap they have to put up with. ... Trying to assess peoples motivations is unlikely to be accurate or useful.

ineedtosleep 14y ago
> Trying to assess peoples motivations is unlikely to be accurate or useful.
EnderMB 14y ago
How else do we come to a meaningful conclusion when posed the question "why won't iOS app developers leave the platform if the conditions are so poor" if it's not from assessing the motivations of those that build them?
- bradshaw1965 14y ago
  >>>Conditons are so poor<<< is your interpretation. It does not take a mass delusion Stockholm syndrome sort of interpretation to figure out that a lot of developers get great satisfaction working on the platform. I'm sure to a person there are things they dislike and would change, but that doesn't mean they are being abused. It's much easier when you accept that people have different opinions about just about everything and that those differing opinions don't always indicate a lack of reason or ulterior motive.
  - EnderMB 14y ago
    That's a poor argument when so many people express this opinion. If any developers get satisfaction working on the platform it's because they like the platform; again a personal preference rather than a solid reason for believing Apple's development platforms are up to par with, say, Microsoft's .NET platform.
    - bradshaw1965 14y ago
      ...are up to par with... We disagree on use of language so we won't be able to reach agreement.

sedev 14y ago

"Platform religion"? That's a bit rich considering that the iOS app store is where developers can make money. I think that's a far, far more powerful motivating factor than "platform religion." The Blackberry had plenty of fervent followers and advocates: look where that got them. Also, comparing Mac/iOS users to members of a religion is the oldest, saggiest, most lackluster thought-terminating-cliche in the book. Come off it already.

EnderMB 14y ago
Are you from the US? If so, you can make money on the Android market quite easily. The idea that iOS is the only platform that can make money is a very dated idea, and one that never really had any merit in the first place. There's a reason why the cliche exists, because it is true. The biggest truths in this world are the obvious ones, not the exciting ones. You pick a platform on perceived value and it's likely that your gut feeling (along with the crowd) will lead you to Apple. If I'm wrong, then why aren't developers ditching Apple? Why is no one boycotting a platform that is happy to litigate, rather than innovate? Why are there so many weak money-related excuses to not developing for Android? It's because of personal belief, and it is your personal belief that iOS is better and will make you more money. By that logic, we'd all set up shop in silicon valley, otherwise working would just be pointless...
- qq66 14y ago
  We are building LiveLoop's mobile client for iOS, and not Android, for monetary reasons, and I feel that I can justify this easily. First of all, the cost of developing for Android, for us, would be higher, because our code to render slides is somewhat resolution-dependent and iDevices come in fewer resolution variants than Android devices. One could make the claim that we should be doing everything in a completely resolution-adaptive way, but we haven't. Second, developing for iPhone gives you the iPad for a negligible development cost, giving you access to the tablet market where Android does not have a meaningful presence yet. The great thing about the tablet market is that people spend more money on similar-functionality apps for iPad than for iPhone. Third, the fact of the matter is that while you can make money on the Android market, the revenue economics of iOS apps are currently completely dominating Android. Both upfront and recurring revenue is higher on iOS. We don't have any qualms about leaving Android on the table today -- obviously, changes in any of these three premises, or huge growth in Android marketshare on tabloid and handheld, could change this.

taligent 14y ago

This could well be the most deluded comment I've seen yet on HN. And I am going to take a guess that you are either (a) not a developer or (b) have never made an app. Because those that have understand that you do not put in the hundreds and hundreds of hours for nothing. You don't do out of some misguided dedication to Steve Jobs, Apple or because you want to be cool. You do it because you have a family to feed, want to make some extra money (iOS is far more profitable) or just make people happy (iOS users are far less likely to pirate).

alttab 14y ago
Personally I wouldn't develop for iOS because "I have a family to feed." Selling apps on the app store has to got to be one of the trickiest things developers for the platform have to put up with - as discoverability is part timing, part luck, and less marketing than most would prefer. Also, if your app gets pulled, gets rejected, or you have trouble getting a new version out for whatever reason, the lack of straight-forward communication with Apple could be dangerous if you have other mouths depending on that income. My roommate worked for an iPhone game company and he and many other developers got laid off when one of their games got rejected.
EnderMB 14y ago
I am a developer (web dev by day), and I have developed and published apps that are on the respective marketplaces for Android, Apple and Blackerry. Regardless of my credentials, if you're relying on building apps to feed your family then I highly suggest that you find yourself a proper job before they starve. I've known enough people jump on the app bandwagon and drag themselves into the dirt.