4 ms·

Only certain plastics contain phthalates. There aren't any in polypropylene plastic, polyethylene plastic or polycarbonates. I'm sympathetic, less plastic is

Only certain plastics contain phthalates. There aren't any in polypropylene plastic, polyethylene plastic or polycarbonates. I'm sympathetic, less plastic is probably good - it does have to be a well thought through change. If the change reduces safety, or if it gets manufacturers to switch to a worse risk profile product, we could be net worse off.

nyanpasu64 2y ago
Sadly I found a study at https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3222987/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3222987/ saying that many polypropylene polyethylene products release estrogenic chemicals (IDK if it's the same as phthalate) likely from additives, including when bent/deformed. And polycarbonates are infamously made of polymerized BPA and similar chemicals (usually endocrine disruptors).
- arcticbull 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing the study. I will say the made-from argument is less compelling since table salt is made from sodium (explosive) and chlorine (chemical warfare agent) and yet it's pretty yummy. So long as it doesn't degrade, that's not super problematic. However the study I will read.
  - nyanpasu64 2y ago
    Polycarbonates have been known to leach from BPA (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/bpa-chemical-plastics-leach-polycarbonate-drinking-bottles-humans/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/bpa-chemica...), I don't know if they've tightened up manufacturing or switched to non-estrogenic or non-bioactive chemicals since then.
    - arcticbull 2y ago
      Just following up! Yeah that's really interesting, I read both of your links. Again thank you for sharing. To be clear my reaction was just to the "made of scary components" thing, I was not dismissing your suggestion that harmful chemicals may leach from the final product.
schiffern 2y ago
Sadly it's not only about (intentional) additives. Plastics — including those listed — act as chemical sponges, soaking up and concentrating toxins present in the ambient environment. For example in a household the airborne dust absorbs brominated fire retardants and formaldehydes. The total quantity of toxins in these tiny particles can exceed the gaseous concentration in the air by thousands of times, so microplastics act like a billion tiny Trojan horses for toxins to enter the body. So when modelling these risks, it could be less about the equilibrium amount of microplastics in the body at any one time (the stock), so much as the constant re-introduction of new microplastics into the body (the flow). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749123021929 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02697... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/plastics-and-chemicals-they-absorb-pose-double-threat-marine-life/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/plastics-and-ch...

nyanpasu64 2y ago

Sadly I found a study at https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3222987/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3222987/ saying that many polypropylene polyethylene products release estrogenic chemicals (IDK if it's the same as phthalate) likely from additives, including when bent/deformed. And polycarbonates are infamously made of polymerized BPA and similar chemicals (usually endocrine disruptors).

arcticbull 2y ago
Thanks for sharing the study. I will say the made-from argument is less compelling since table salt is made from sodium (explosive) and chlorine (chemical warfare agent) and yet it's pretty yummy. So long as it doesn't degrade, that's not super problematic. However the study I will read.
- nyanpasu64 2y ago
  Polycarbonates have been known to leach from BPA (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/bpa-chemical-plastics-leach-polycarbonate-drinking-bottles-humans/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/bpa-chemica...), I don't know if they've tightened up manufacturing or switched to non-estrogenic or non-bioactive chemicals since then.
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    Just following up! Yeah that's really interesting, I read both of your links. Again thank you for sharing. To be clear my reaction was just to the "made of scary components" thing, I was not dismissing your suggestion that harmful chemicals may leach from the final product.

schiffern 2y ago

Sadly it's not only about (intentional) additives. Plastics — including those listed — act as chemical sponges, soaking up and concentrating toxins present in the ambient environment. For example in a household the airborne dust absorbs brominated fire retardants and formaldehydes. The total quantity of toxins in these tiny particles can exceed the gaseous concentration in the air by thousands of times, so microplastics act like a billion tiny Trojan horses for toxins to enter the body. So when modelling these risks, it could be less about the equilibrium amount of microplastics in the body at any one time (the stock), so much as the constant re-introduction of new microplastics into the body (the flow). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749123021929 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02697... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/plastics-and-chemicals-they-absorb-pose-double-threat-marine-life/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/plastics-and-ch...