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Why will a defined benefit scheme “obviously” not happen?

by jen20 2y ago

linotype 2y ago
Because defined benefit plans (at least in the US) are dead and have been for a while (10 years in the Boeing case).
ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
Thank you for asking a good faith question. To answer, I've provided a couple of links below, but the tl;dr is that they're unaffordable for companies, and as a result have become an anachronism. Boeing specifically was already losing billions before the strike, so has a negative ability to give more, much less increase their 60+ billion dollar unfunded pension liabilities with new generations they'll have to keep paying for another half century. https://finbox.com/NYSE:BA/explorer/unfunded_vested_pension_liab/ https://finbox.com/NYSE:BA/explorer/unfunded_vested_pension_... https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-strike-pension-plan-restart-0d1b4adb https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-strike-pension-plan-... Notably, the question I asked before yours, was also in good faith. I answered yours first as a further show of good faith, but the question that now must be addressed is: What compromise has the union offered from their own initial demands?
- jen20 2y ago
  Thanks for the links, that does indeed seem to support your assertion. I don't know enough about this dispute in general to offer opinion on what any party has or hasn't done though, so anything I have to say about the union representing Boeing workers would just be noise in the conversation.
- salawat 2y ago
  The union had already compromised, and if Boeing has unfunded pension liabilities, why in the fuck were they doing stock buybacks? Unfunded pension liabilities = undelivered compensation for people who have already worked for you. What in the Sam is wrong with this bloody country man? Does anything actually bloody work?
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    I know, I totally support Boeing selling their buyback'd stock, even if it tanks the stock price (executive compensation be damned), and using the proceeds to account for a portion of their unfunded pension liabilities. Even if they did that, though, I don't think it would cover their current pension liabilities, much less new ones which will continue to grow for decades.

Why will a defined benefit scheme “obviously” not happen?

by jen20 2y ago

Why will a defined benefit scheme “obviously” not happen?

linotype 2y ago

Because defined benefit plans (at least in the US) are dead and have been for a while (10 years in the Boeing case).

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago

Thank you for asking a good faith question. To answer, I've provided a couple of links below, but the tl;dr is that they're unaffordable for companies, and as a result have become an anachronism. Boeing specifically was already losing billions before the strike, so has a negative ability to give more, much less increase their 60+ billion dollar unfunded pension liabilities with new generations they'll have to keep paying for another half century. https://finbox.com/NYSE:BA/explorer/unfunded_vested_pension_liab/ https://finbox.com/NYSE:BA/explorer/unfunded_vested_pension_... https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-strike-pension-plan-restart-0d1b4adb https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-strike-pension-plan-... Notably, the question I asked before yours, was also in good faith. I answered yours first as a further show of good faith, but the question that now must be addressed is: What compromise has the union offered from their own initial demands?

jen20 2y ago
Thanks for the links, that does indeed seem to support your assertion. I don't know enough about this dispute in general to offer opinion on what any party has or hasn't done though, so anything I have to say about the union representing Boeing workers would just be noise in the conversation.
salawat 2y ago
The union had already compromised, and if Boeing has unfunded pension liabilities, why in the fuck were they doing stock buybacks? Unfunded pension liabilities = undelivered compensation for people who have already worked for you. What in the Sam is wrong with this bloody country man? Does anything actually bloody work?
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  I know, I totally support Boeing selling their buyback'd stock, even if it tanks the stock price (executive compensation be damned), and using the proceeds to account for a portion of their unfunded pension liabilities. Even if they did that, though, I don't think it would cover their current pension liabilities, much less new ones which will continue to grow for decades.