3 ms·

I think you’re trying too hard to squash a nuanced post into some fan binary where you’re either for or against Apple, starting with making a strong claim which

by acdha 2y ago

I think you’re trying too hard to squash a nuanced post into some fan binary where you’re either for or against Apple, starting with making a strong claim which the person you’re replying to never made.

xp84 2y ago
GP post wasn’t that nuanced; it strongly implied that since granny gave her Mac to her silly nephew for setup and had a bad time, that justifies stripping the supposed owners of all Apple devices of meaningful control of those devices. An unsurprising take from someone who sounds like he may be a onetime or current Apple employee. I think what makes someone a “fan” is that complete trust of Apple to do “What’s Best,” a completely coincidental perfect harmony between “What’s Best” and Apple’s financial interest, and the suggestion that the platform(s) simply aren’t “for” people like me who want any choice whatsoever, and we should just F off to Android if we don’t like it because ceding us any control would somehow explode the “safe, easy” walled garden by its very availability, a completely bogus argument.
- acdha 2y ago
  You’re again putting words in their mouth. That post illustrated that this is not a simple binary, having real costs to that flexibility. I think your feelings are valid emotions but they’re leading you astray by thinking that Apple’s customers are not making a rational choice. I also note that you can install non-Apple operating systems on the latest hardware and they even put engineering time into supporting that and making it safer for Mac users to do so.
  - xp84 2y ago
    I’m not even slightly worried that Apple’s customers are making anything but the best choice for them. At least the ones who are super happy with how “easy and safe” their system is. All people like me want is for there to be a switch to let us have the ultimate say over our computers. This used to be standard even on Macs until a few years ago. I admit, however, complete ignorance on how I’m supposed to install, say, Windows, on an M* Mac. As far as I knew, the T2 security chip or whatever is the decider of that, and I wasn’t aware that Apple made any promises that they’d allow such a thing as an OS that isn’t signed with Apple’s certificates. What you’re saying is news to me so I’ll have to look it up. Still though, I actually still mostly like “macOS” and want to keep using it, but would like to have the right to do things like turn off their dozens of permissions warnings, and assume full responsibility for not installing malware.
    - acdha 2y ago
      > I admit, however, complete ignorance on how I’m supposed to install, say, Windows, on an M* Mac. As far as I knew, the T2 security chip or whatever is the decider of that, and I wasn’t aware that Apple made any promises that they’d allow such a thing as an OS that isn’t signed with Apple’s certificates. What you’re saying is news to me so I’ll have to look it up. The problem with Windows is that Microsoft doesn’t sell an ARM installer directly to you. Here’s what the Linux situation looks like with a single command to install it: https://asahilinux.org/fedora/ https://asahilinux.org/fedora/ The process is described in detail here: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Open-OS-Ecosystem-on-Apple-Silicon-Macs https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Open-OS-Ecosystem-on... The part you’re probably most interested in is here, where they describe how the different volumes use encryption so you can boot an unsigned OS which doesn’t have access to your primary macOS storage but can use a shared volume to exchange data intentionally, and some discussion about how Apple has made this easier over time: https://jamesb192.github.io/asahi-wiki-build/Apple-Platform-Security-Crash-Course/ https://jamesb192.github.io/asahi-wiki-build/Apple-Platform-...
      - xp84 2y ago
        Thanks for the resources! I'm glad to see the door is at least cracked open to the concept of more than a first-party OS, and not welded shut like it is on apple's "mobile" hardware.

by acdha 2y ago

xp84 2y ago

GP post wasn’t that nuanced; it strongly implied that since granny gave her Mac to her silly nephew for setup and had a bad time, that justifies stripping the supposed owners of all Apple devices of meaningful control of those devices. An unsurprising take from someone who sounds like he may be a onetime or current Apple employee. I think what makes someone a “fan” is that complete trust of Apple to do “What’s Best,” a completely coincidental perfect harmony between “What’s Best” and Apple’s financial interest, and the suggestion that the platform(s) simply aren’t “for” people like me who want any choice whatsoever, and we should just F off to Android if we don’t like it because ceding us any control would somehow explode the “safe, easy” walled garden by its very availability, a completely bogus argument.

acdha 2y ago
You’re again putting words in their mouth. That post illustrated that this is not a simple binary, having real costs to that flexibility. I think your feelings are valid emotions but they’re leading you astray by thinking that Apple’s customers are not making a rational choice. I also note that you can install non-Apple operating systems on the latest hardware and they even put engineering time into supporting that and making it safer for Mac users to do so.
- xp84 2y ago
  I’m not even slightly worried that Apple’s customers are making anything but the best choice for them. At least the ones who are super happy with how “easy and safe” their system is. All people like me want is for there to be a switch to let us have the ultimate say over our computers. This used to be standard even on Macs until a few years ago. I admit, however, complete ignorance on how I’m supposed to install, say, Windows, on an M* Mac. As far as I knew, the T2 security chip or whatever is the decider of that, and I wasn’t aware that Apple made any promises that they’d allow such a thing as an OS that isn’t signed with Apple’s certificates. What you’re saying is news to me so I’ll have to look it up. Still though, I actually still mostly like “macOS” and want to keep using it, but would like to have the right to do things like turn off their dozens of permissions warnings, and assume full responsibility for not installing malware.
  - acdha 2y ago
    > I admit, however, complete ignorance on how I’m supposed to install, say, Windows, on an M* Mac. As far as I knew, the T2 security chip or whatever is the decider of that, and I wasn’t aware that Apple made any promises that they’d allow such a thing as an OS that isn’t signed with Apple’s certificates. What you’re saying is news to me so I’ll have to look it up. The problem with Windows is that Microsoft doesn’t sell an ARM installer directly to you. Here’s what the Linux situation looks like with a single command to install it: https://asahilinux.org/fedora/ https://asahilinux.org/fedora/ The process is described in detail here: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Open-OS-Ecosystem-on-Apple-Silicon-Macs https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Open-OS-Ecosystem-on... The part you’re probably most interested in is here, where they describe how the different volumes use encryption so you can boot an unsigned OS which doesn’t have access to your primary macOS storage but can use a shared volume to exchange data intentionally, and some discussion about how Apple has made this easier over time: https://jamesb192.github.io/asahi-wiki-build/Apple-Platform-Security-Crash-Course/ https://jamesb192.github.io/asahi-wiki-build/Apple-Platform-...
    - xp84 2y ago
      Thanks for the resources! I'm glad to see the door is at least cracked open to the concept of more than a first-party OS, and not welded shut like it is on apple's "mobile" hardware.