4 ms·

Counterpoint: Vaccines work, but far too many people think that COVID vaccines contain Jewish-made GPS tracking devices that act as micro-antennae to allow Bill

by biofox 2y ago

Counterpoint: Vaccines work, but far too many people think that COVID vaccines contain Jewish-made GPS tracking devices that act as micro-antennae to allow Bill Gates to sterilise them using 5G.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
[flagged]
- roywiggins 2y ago
  It's not hard to find people who are germ theory truthers. They have alternative "explanations" for why nobody gets polio or smallpox anymore.
  - otabdeveloper4 2y ago
    No need for scare quotes. Post hoc fallacies aren't proof of work, and anyways there's doubt if post hoc is even true for polio and smallpox. Way too many confounding factors here, and nobody will risk and experiment with a control group in this situation.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  Yes.
- seanhunter 2y ago
  This sort of willful devil's advocacy doesn't further discussion and is extremely unhelpful. To take your first example, you know and I know that you can tell whether a CD player works. You put in a CD, you press "play", it plays. If you have some theory as to why that test is inadequate, it's on you to lay your cards on the table and state it so there's something substantive to discuss. Until then you're just trolling.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    Why do you think I presented those questions side by side?
    - oneshtein 2y ago
      It looks more convincing this way, especially when your audience know nothing about antibodies. HN is just not you target audience. IMHO, it will work well in a pub after a drink or two.
    - seanhunter 2y ago
      I think the reason you presented those questions side by side is that you are trolling. I won't be responding further.
    - romwell 2y ago
      >Why do you think I presented those questions side by side? Perhaps because cowardice prevented you from stating your point clearly, so instead you resorted to vague implications in the form of a question. A fine tactic which gives the coward a plausible deniability defense when their bullshit is called out: I didn't say that, you said that. Coupled with other similar techniques, e.g.: * You know what I mean * Questions that have actual answers, but are asked rhetorically to make an implication: How many cats are eaten alive each year by immigrants? * Both-sidesing/false balance (giving equal weight to contradicting points of view, regardless of what the reality has to say) * Ambiguous implication that can be taken in many ways, depending on how the asker defines the terms: Do you really think the immigrants are helping the economy? * Non-sequiturs and non-answers * False dichotomies * Etc ...this gives the coward a superpower to start a heated discussion, where the coward never actually says anything directly. Instead, the opponents exert an enormous effort to debunk each leaf on the tree of possible interpretations of the coward's incomplete thought, effectively doing the thinking for the coward in a futile attempt to nail down what point the coward intended to make. (There is no such clear point, other than I am right and you are wrong). By the time it becomes clear that no possible interpretation is supported by reality, the coward silently leaves the discussion, and says the same exact things elsewhere, feeling empowered by having made others frustrated. That frustration counts as a victory in an argument in coward's view, with the assumption that it comes from inability to counter the coward's (unstated, vague, implied) points. In reality, it's infuriating to have to be made guessing what the other person wants to say, doubly so when they are the one forcing to play that game, which, miraculously, you always seem to lose, because the outcome is invariably "that's not quite what I'm saying" (and what the coward is saying is never directly stated by the coward). At the same time, this protects the coward from being riduculed for any of the views they're promulgating in the discussion. This is why the coward never states the views directly, and instead e.g. "presents questions side by side". If the coward were to say outright "Unlike CD players, there's actually no clear way to say whether vaccines work or not", the coward would be laughed out of the room, and they know it — which is why the resort to implications and rhetorical questions about coward's motivation. I hope this fully answers the question asked.
- qup 2y ago
  They're talking about additional functions (side-effects) of vaccines, really. It's secondary to whether they work or not. We can't tell whether a CD player has a listening device in it, for instance.
gpderetta 2y ago
That's a common misunderstanding. The mind controlling COVID vaccines are being spread by chemtrails. The 5G signal is only used by pilots to decide when to start spraying.
nsxwolf 2y ago
COVID vaccines may "work" but they're pretty lame compared to something like the varicella vaccine where the disease basically disappears of the face of the earth.
- IX-103 2y ago
  We'll see if varicella stays gone. It's tricky in that it can embed itself in the host genome and come back later. That means that until the last person exposed to the virus dies, we can't really consider it gone. Good luck convincing people to continue vaccinating for a disease no one has seen in a couple decades. Of course, if varicella was able to infect germ-line cells it would be even worse... COVID on the other hand doesn't have such a mechanism, and just relies on being really contagious. So if everyone would stay up to date in their boosters and continue masking in public places, we may be able to get rid of it in a couple of years.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    > So if everyone would stay up to date in their boosters and continue masking in public places, we may be able to get rid of it in a couple of years. By that logic we'd have gotten rid of the flu. Vaccines for rapidly mutating viruses like flu and COVID can't keep up and remain an epidemic. The only disease we've actually been able to eliminate worldwide due to vaccines is smallpox. We'd have gotten rid of measles too if crazies hadn't decided the MMR vaccine causes autism due to criminally fraudulent research.
    - zehaeva 2y ago
      Didn't one strain of the flu become extinct during the pandemic because we masked up and staying away from each other for a year? One would think that if we just kept that up we'd get rid of all the others. https://www.npr.org/2024/10/18/nx-s1-5155997/influenza-strains-disappearance-attributed-to-covid-protocols-alters-2024-flu-shot https://www.npr.org/2024/10/18/nx-s1-5155997/influenza-strai...
      - 2y ago

by biofox 2y ago

Counterpoint: Vaccines work, but far too many people think that COVID vaccines contain Jewish-made GPS tracking devices that act as micro-antennae to allow Bill Gates to sterilise them using 5G.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

[flagged]

roywiggins 2y ago
It's not hard to find people who are germ theory truthers. They have alternative "explanations" for why nobody gets polio or smallpox anymore.
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago
  No need for scare quotes. Post hoc fallacies aren't proof of work, and anyways there's doubt if post hoc is even true for polio and smallpox. Way too many confounding factors here, and nobody will risk and experiment with a control group in this situation.
bongodongobob 2y ago
Yes.
seanhunter 2y ago
This sort of willful devil's advocacy doesn't further discussion and is extremely unhelpful. To take your first example, you know and I know that you can tell whether a CD player works. You put in a CD, you press "play", it plays. If you have some theory as to why that test is inadequate, it's on you to lay your cards on the table and state it so there's something substantive to discuss. Until then you're just trolling.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Why do you think I presented those questions side by side?
  - oneshtein 2y ago
    It looks more convincing this way, especially when your audience know nothing about antibodies. HN is just not you target audience. IMHO, it will work well in a pub after a drink or two.
  - seanhunter 2y ago
    I think the reason you presented those questions side by side is that you are trolling. I won't be responding further.
  - romwell 2y ago
    >Why do you think I presented those questions side by side? Perhaps because cowardice prevented you from stating your point clearly, so instead you resorted to vague implications in the form of a question. A fine tactic which gives the coward a plausible deniability defense when their bullshit is called out: I didn't say that, you said that. Coupled with other similar techniques, e.g.: * You know what I mean * Questions that have actual answers, but are asked rhetorically to make an implication: How many cats are eaten alive each year by immigrants? * Both-sidesing/false balance (giving equal weight to contradicting points of view, regardless of what the reality has to say) * Ambiguous implication that can be taken in many ways, depending on how the asker defines the terms: Do you really think the immigrants are helping the economy? * Non-sequiturs and non-answers * False dichotomies * Etc ...this gives the coward a superpower to start a heated discussion, where the coward never actually says anything directly. Instead, the opponents exert an enormous effort to debunk each leaf on the tree of possible interpretations of the coward's incomplete thought, effectively doing the thinking for the coward in a futile attempt to nail down what point the coward intended to make. (There is no such clear point, other than I am right and you are wrong). By the time it becomes clear that no possible interpretation is supported by reality, the coward silently leaves the discussion, and says the same exact things elsewhere, feeling empowered by having made others frustrated. That frustration counts as a victory in an argument in coward's view, with the assumption that it comes from inability to counter the coward's (unstated, vague, implied) points. In reality, it's infuriating to have to be made guessing what the other person wants to say, doubly so when they are the one forcing to play that game, which, miraculously, you always seem to lose, because the outcome is invariably "that's not quite what I'm saying" (and what the coward is saying is never directly stated by the coward). At the same time, this protects the coward from being riduculed for any of the views they're promulgating in the discussion. This is why the coward never states the views directly, and instead e.g. "presents questions side by side". If the coward were to say outright "Unlike CD players, there's actually no clear way to say whether vaccines work or not", the coward would be laughed out of the room, and they know it — which is why the resort to implications and rhetorical questions about coward's motivation. I hope this fully answers the question asked.
qup 2y ago
They're talking about additional functions (side-effects) of vaccines, really. It's secondary to whether they work or not. We can't tell whether a CD player has a listening device in it, for instance.

gpderetta 2y ago

That's a common misunderstanding. The mind controlling COVID vaccines are being spread by chemtrails. The 5G signal is only used by pilots to decide when to start spraying.

nsxwolf 2y ago

COVID vaccines may "work" but they're pretty lame compared to something like the varicella vaccine where the disease basically disappears of the face of the earth.

IX-103 2y ago
We'll see if varicella stays gone. It's tricky in that it can embed itself in the host genome and come back later. That means that until the last person exposed to the virus dies, we can't really consider it gone. Good luck convincing people to continue vaccinating for a disease no one has seen in a couple decades. Of course, if varicella was able to infect germ-line cells it would be even worse... COVID on the other hand doesn't have such a mechanism, and just relies on being really contagious. So if everyone would stay up to date in their boosters and continue masking in public places, we may be able to get rid of it in a couple of years.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  > So if everyone would stay up to date in their boosters and continue masking in public places, we may be able to get rid of it in a couple of years. By that logic we'd have gotten rid of the flu. Vaccines for rapidly mutating viruses like flu and COVID can't keep up and remain an epidemic. The only disease we've actually been able to eliminate worldwide due to vaccines is smallpox. We'd have gotten rid of measles too if crazies hadn't decided the MMR vaccine causes autism due to criminally fraudulent research.
  - zehaeva 2y ago
    Didn't one strain of the flu become extinct during the pandemic because we masked up and staying away from each other for a year? One would think that if we just kept that up we'd get rid of all the others. https://www.npr.org/2024/10/18/nx-s1-5155997/influenza-strains-disappearance-attributed-to-covid-protocols-alters-2024-flu-shot https://www.npr.org/2024/10/18/nx-s1-5155997/influenza-strai...
    - 2y ago