5 ms·

I see a lot of anti Union talk on American social media as if the shit Boeing is currently in is somehow the fault of the workers.

linotype 2y ago
Many Americans aren’t getting a 35% pay rise.
- OkayPhysicist 2y ago
  If only there was a way for those Americans to band together for leverage against their bosses to demand better pay. Maybe we could even pass some laws protecting their right to do so.
  - linotype 2y ago
    If only.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  Or a defined-benefits retirement plan (pension).
- Pet_Ant 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
  - mc32 2y ago
    So, to hell with it and sink the ship you're on to spite the captain? I think you can fight those fights when you get through the storm not while you're in the eye of it. I have not sympathy for management, but this move is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. It's not symbiotic. Obviously management have been absolute bastards in managing the company almost to the point of bankruptcy, but it would be foolhardy to add insult to injury and speed up the company's demise --which it can only blame itself for. If I were the union, rather than ask for large raises at inopportune times, I would ask for veto power in the Board to overrule stupid moves like the 737-MAX fiasco. This would save jobs and provide more opportunity for profits and raises.
    - catlikesshrimp 2y ago
      It is impossible to know for outsiders if the demands are fair or not, without historic details. Boeing will blame the workers at least partially when they file bankrupcy. At least other companies will take workers more seriously. Historic example: Banana companies in poor countries were terrible. Lives and environment were destroyed in exchange for years of explotation. It was not fair for the workers. Absolutely without a doubt in retrospective The workers always lose, but without a fight the situation doesn't improve for them.
- triceratops 2y ago
  Now they know how to get one.
- class3shock 2y ago
  The Boeing employees aren't either, it's 8-9% over multiple years. Additionally, this makes it seem like you are implying, "They are getting something that others aren't, so they should be happy and take it.". IMHO the takeaway should be, "The union has got them a much deserved raise, more Americans who are being underpaid should join a union to get fair compensation.".
  - linotype 2y ago
    Only 8% a year. How will they get by.
    - consteval 2y ago
      This isn't an argument, you just kind of sound jealous and self-destructive.
      - linotype 2y ago
        I’m a human not a robot.
        consteval 2y ago
        Fair enough, but you're not doing yourself any favors by being self-destructive. In fact I think the nature of self-destruction means you're hurting yourself. If you think 8% is outrageous for them, why not demand more for yourself? Instead of kneecapping people you don't even know out of a somewhat pathetic need to feel adequate, why not simply match them? Then, you won't have to look up to people you feel are beneath you.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        linotype 2y ago
        No need for personal attacks. This isn’t Facebook.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
it wasn't the CEO who left a broom inside the rudder assembly of a jetliner Boeing has had decades of bad management for sure, but the unions have gone along for the ride so now, Boeing products are considered inferior; how can Boeing charge more than Airbus for an inferior product? the unions have a weak hand anyway...where else will they work? they are Boeing lifers one way or another
- diggan 2y ago
  > they are Boeing lifers one way or another Gonna be interesting to see if this ends up true or not :) In the end, there won't be a Boeing if no one wants to work there, and no one is gonna want to work there if you can't sustain your own life on what you get from working there.
- class3shock 2y ago
  It wasn't the unions that prioritized shareholder value over everything else for the last few decades. Saying they were along for the ride is accurate but don't forget there is a serious difference in power between the csuite and everyone else.

linotype 2y ago

Many Americans aren’t getting a 35% pay rise.

OkayPhysicist 2y ago
If only there was a way for those Americans to band together for leverage against their bosses to demand better pay. Maybe we could even pass some laws protecting their right to do so.
- linotype 2y ago
  If only.
ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
Or a defined-benefits retirement plan (pension).
Pet_Ant 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
- mc32 2y ago
  So, to hell with it and sink the ship you're on to spite the captain? I think you can fight those fights when you get through the storm not while you're in the eye of it. I have not sympathy for management, but this move is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. It's not symbiotic. Obviously management have been absolute bastards in managing the company almost to the point of bankruptcy, but it would be foolhardy to add insult to injury and speed up the company's demise --which it can only blame itself for. If I were the union, rather than ask for large raises at inopportune times, I would ask for veto power in the Board to overrule stupid moves like the 737-MAX fiasco. This would save jobs and provide more opportunity for profits and raises.
  - catlikesshrimp 2y ago
    It is impossible to know for outsiders if the demands are fair or not, without historic details. Boeing will blame the workers at least partially when they file bankrupcy. At least other companies will take workers more seriously. Historic example: Banana companies in poor countries were terrible. Lives and environment were destroyed in exchange for years of explotation. It was not fair for the workers. Absolutely without a doubt in retrospective The workers always lose, but without a fight the situation doesn't improve for them.
triceratops 2y ago
Now they know how to get one.
class3shock 2y ago
The Boeing employees aren't either, it's 8-9% over multiple years. Additionally, this makes it seem like you are implying, "They are getting something that others aren't, so they should be happy and take it.". IMHO the takeaway should be, "The union has got them a much deserved raise, more Americans who are being underpaid should join a union to get fair compensation.".
- linotype 2y ago
  Only 8% a year. How will they get by.
  - consteval 2y ago
    This isn't an argument, you just kind of sound jealous and self-destructive.
    - linotype 2y ago
      I’m a human not a robot.
      - consteval 2y ago
        Fair enough, but you're not doing yourself any favors by being self-destructive. In fact I think the nature of self-destruction means you're hurting yourself. If you think 8% is outrageous for them, why not demand more for yourself? Instead of kneecapping people you don't even know out of a somewhat pathetic need to feel adequate, why not simply match them? Then, you won't have to look up to people you feel are beneath you.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        linotype 2y ago
        No need for personal attacks. This isn’t Facebook.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

it wasn't the CEO who left a broom inside the rudder assembly of a jetliner Boeing has had decades of bad management for sure, but the unions have gone along for the ride so now, Boeing products are considered inferior; how can Boeing charge more than Airbus for an inferior product? the unions have a weak hand anyway...where else will they work? they are Boeing lifers one way or another

diggan 2y ago
> they are Boeing lifers one way or another Gonna be interesting to see if this ends up true or not :) In the end, there won't be a Boeing if no one wants to work there, and no one is gonna want to work there if you can't sustain your own life on what you get from working there.
class3shock 2y ago
It wasn't the unions that prioritized shareholder value over everything else for the last few decades. Saying they were along for the ride is accurate but don't forget there is a serious difference in power between the csuite and everyone else.