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> This sounds to me that the sanctions are working Sure :) Russians exports have grown since sanctions were imposed, budget income have grown as well. But yea,

> This sounds to me that the sanctions are working Sure :) Russians exports have grown since sanctions were imposed, budget income have grown as well. But yea, sanctions are working > the massive destabilization attempts they have going on against the west since 2000. Could you please bring any example of those "massive destabilization attempts"? I reckon NATO started expansion causing lots of cautious anxiety in russia and eventually contributing to invasion.

darthrupert 2y ago
> Could you please bring any example of those "massive destabilization attempts"? Just about every far-right populist political party in the west is being or has been funded and supported by Russia. This is a fact. Also, russian troll factories have been documented in several books by several separate people, for instance - https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Information/dp/1632461293 https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Info... - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troll-Factories-Russias-Brigades-Issue/dp/1534503838 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troll-Factories-Russias-Brigades-Is... - https://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/1476755744/ https://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/... > I reckon NATO started expansion NATO "expanding" is one of the widely documented russotroll dogwhistles. I will thank you for not spreading this lie further.
- jesterson 2y ago
  > Just about every far-right populist political party in the west is being or has been funded and supported by Russia. This is a fact. Never ceases to amaze me how people can throw absolutely bogus bs without any remotely reasonable proof and then say “this is a fact”. Normally i wouldn’t dignify that nonsense with any sort of discussion, but i am just curious how anyone would try to support arguments “Russia funded ALL far right parties” in the west.
bell-cot 2y ago
> I reckon NATO started... Why? Until things got warm in Ukraine, NATO was looking like a crumbling-to-dust paper tiger, and its expansion seemed like a make-work program for old bureaucrats. Just compare NATO's 2010 ground forces to its 1985 ground forces. At one point, I recall there even being talk of Russia joining NATO.
- jesterson 2y ago
  no need togo that far in history - we can compare NATO expansion since 2000-2015. And you are right saying there were talks about Russia joining NATO. But it didn’t happen and never would, since nato is a hostile military organization
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?" - Joseph Stalin NATO "expanding" on a map - when the size of its combat-credible forces was fading toward zero - was a threat only in the minds of small children, attention-hungry alarmists, and senile paranoids. If Russia had cared to, it could have used self-serving western politicians to "Peace Dividend" NATO out of existence.
    - jesterson 2y ago
      haha, “combat-credible” forces were quite sufficient to terrorise and destroy Yugoslavia, when it was necessary. It was never close to zero, quite the opposite.
      - bell-cot 2y ago
        Glancing at Wikipedia, to compare the Area, Population, GNP, etc. of Russia and Yugoslavia...yeah. Charitably put, the latter was within 2-ish orders of magnitude of the former. Were the Soviets also cowering and whispering "OMG, we're next!!!" back in 1983, when the US invaded Grenada? After all, there were (given sufficient stretch) actual Soviet forces defeated in that case.
        jesterson 2y ago
        If you do like cherry picking numbers you look at, you may find it extremely inconvenient to compare combined nato forces, which you have dismissed as “near zero” and russian forces. That makes the point but not the comparison of Yugoslavia to anything.

darthrupert 2y ago

> Could you please bring any example of those "massive destabilization attempts"? Just about every far-right populist political party in the west is being or has been funded and supported by Russia. This is a fact. Also, russian troll factories have been documented in several books by several separate people, for instance - https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Information/dp/1632461293 https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Info... - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troll-Factories-Russias-Brigades-Issue/dp/1534503838 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troll-Factories-Russias-Brigades-Is... - https://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/1476755744/ https://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/... > I reckon NATO started expansion NATO "expanding" is one of the widely documented russotroll dogwhistles. I will thank you for not spreading this lie further.

jesterson 2y ago
> Just about every far-right populist political party in the west is being or has been funded and supported by Russia. This is a fact. Never ceases to amaze me how people can throw absolutely bogus bs without any remotely reasonable proof and then say “this is a fact”. Normally i wouldn’t dignify that nonsense with any sort of discussion, but i am just curious how anyone would try to support arguments “Russia funded ALL far right parties” in the west.

bell-cot 2y ago

> I reckon NATO started... Why? Until things got warm in Ukraine, NATO was looking like a crumbling-to-dust paper tiger, and its expansion seemed like a make-work program for old bureaucrats. Just compare NATO's 2010 ground forces to its 1985 ground forces. At one point, I recall there even being talk of Russia joining NATO.

jesterson 2y ago
no need togo that far in history - we can compare NATO expansion since 2000-2015. And you are right saying there were talks about Russia joining NATO. But it didn’t happen and never would, since nato is a hostile military organization
- bell-cot 2y ago
  "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?" - Joseph Stalin NATO "expanding" on a map - when the size of its combat-credible forces was fading toward zero - was a threat only in the minds of small children, attention-hungry alarmists, and senile paranoids. If Russia had cared to, it could have used self-serving western politicians to "Peace Dividend" NATO out of existence.
  - jesterson 2y ago
    haha, “combat-credible” forces were quite sufficient to terrorise and destroy Yugoslavia, when it was necessary. It was never close to zero, quite the opposite.
    - bell-cot 2y ago
      Glancing at Wikipedia, to compare the Area, Population, GNP, etc. of Russia and Yugoslavia...yeah. Charitably put, the latter was within 2-ish orders of magnitude of the former. Were the Soviets also cowering and whispering "OMG, we're next!!!" back in 1983, when the US invaded Grenada? After all, there were (given sufficient stretch) actual Soviet forces defeated in that case.
      - jesterson 2y ago
        If you do like cherry picking numbers you look at, you may find it extremely inconvenient to compare combined nato forces, which you have dismissed as “near zero” and russian forces. That makes the point but not the comparison of Yugoslavia to anything.