5 ms·

Maybe I'm not understanding the use case. I don't want to "take the train". I want to get from A to B. If the train is broken, the workers are on strike, the ro

by nox101 2y ago

Maybe I'm not understanding the use case. I don't want to "take the train". I want to get from A to B. If the train is broken, the workers are on strike, the route is blocked between 1pm and 4pm, or it's outside of operating hours then I want an alternative. So for me, I actually want what Google Maps gives me (or tries to give me). I do not just want to know about trains. Maybe I want to get from the Ferry Building to Oakland and maybe the Bart is broken so i'd be better to take the ferry. Maybe it's late so my only option is a taxi/uber. Alternatives are especially important in other cities. In Tokyo if I want to go from Shibuya to Azabujuban I can take * Ginza Line->Namboku line - advantages, (1) Ginza line starts at Shibuya so guaranteed a seat if I wait for the next train - though only for 4 stops where I have to switch (2) both lines are same train company so $1 cheaper * Hanzomon Line->Oedo line - advantages, fastest * Yamanoto line->Namboku line * #6 bus - advantages: no changes, disadvantage, slowest * taxi - advantage: fastest if there's no line for taxis or if I'm confident I can find one quickly Extra considerations. Each line's station and the bus stop are 3 to 8 minutes walk from each other so if I'm closest to one that would weigh on my choice. Speed matters too, if I'm late. If I have large or heavy packages I'd be more likely to take the cab. Etc....

bongodongobob 2y ago
[flagged]
- nox101 2y ago
  without more info you can't know that. further. I want to go to one app. If I want to go to Geary and 24th, there is no train. I don't want to have to take the extra step of thinking about where I want to go and then having to choose the appropriate app. one app will do
inejge 2y ago
> Maybe I'm not understanding the use case. I don't want to "take the train". The use case is routine. A lot of people, most of the time, do indeed want to "take the train". Heroic feats of real-time planning have their place, and it's great to have tools that help you with that, but routine can be covered with much simpler tools just as well. Even in the Tokyo scenario you gave (which is fascinating -- thank you!) Google gives 30-40 min. for most public transit options, so for rough planning they're all equivalent. Taxi is faster, and bicycle is almost at par.
- nox101 2y ago
  never met that person. as someone that has long lived in cities with amazing transportation (sf is not one of those with good transportation) there are too many options and people always want whatever is best now, not routine. you're out drinking - which mode is last. you're on the east side of X, which route is closest. you're tired, does any route guauntee a seat. etc.... Berlin, London, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore, Kyoto, Osaka. All this way . there is no "one train"
  - michaelt 2y ago
    > never met that person. Hello! Now you have. In many cities certain parts of the transit network follow a star / hub-and-spoke layout. The station nearest to my house is on a spoke, and has trains going south and those going north. So for me, an in-home train display only really needs to show the next train in each direction. And a lot of transit decisions are conditional on things the planning app doesn't know. Am I comfortable riding a hire bike, appropriately dressed, and carrying a helmet? Do I already have a return ticket for the light rail making it the obvious choice? Am I the kind of person who enjoys a brisk 20 minute walk? Combine that with the fact that the multimodal transit apps don't understand fares, and I find it's simpler to just start the taxi app if you need a taxi.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      > Combine that with the fact that the multimodal transit apps don't understand fares Kakao Maps will give you exact timing and fares for every mode except air > In many cities certain parts of the transit network follow a star / hub-and-spoke layout Yeah those who live on a spoke and mostly go back and forth that spoke are a minority because the farthter away from the center the more space between the spokes:)
  - reportgunner 2y ago
    I feel like the OP is overcomplicating the solution, I don't own a car and all commuting is basically either: - bus/train/tram crosses my stop 5 times a day - its trivial to learn the 5 times - bus/train/tram crosses my stop more than 5 times a day - i just show up at the stop and wait Perhaps my point of view is like this because I'm in Europe, I can't tell really.
numpad0 2y ago
Experiences with public transit in central Tokyo is don't generalize to the world. It's as pointless as talking in-store shopping or dining experience based solely on that inside a Disneyland. Just tapping Suica takes couple times less than what takes you elsewhere, if at all supported.
rsynnott 2y ago
> So for me, I actually want what Google Maps gives me (or tries to give me). One thing I find is that Google Maps really, really assumes that walking is very very bad and no-one wants to do it. So for instance, if I'm going to a particular place I will get a 39 bus and then walk 15 minutes. If I ask Google how to get there, I'll get a route with two transfers; if the stars align it'll take about as long as one-bus plus walk. So if I want Google to tell me when the 39 bus is coming, I'll have to lie about where I'm going. (Also, at least where I am Google's realtime data is questionable, with the data from the operator and some other third parties being more reliable.)
- 16mb 2y ago
  I had the same problems with Google Maps. I ended up using Apple Maps in Japan and it gave much more realistic routes
- creer 2y ago
  > Google Maps really, really assumes Indeed, they assume all kinds of things - with no option to customize. For example, they assume that a 1 or 2 minute transfer will happen. Which you might want to override, but can't. You have your reasons to want to route through Caltrain instead of BART... and you can't. This is a characteristic of the brand really: Google people know what's good for you. I mean, them.
crazygringo 2y ago
For your daily commute, you really do just want to "take the train". If the train is broken or the workers are on strike, that will be reflected in the unexpected absence of live trains listed. I pull up Google Maps and plug in my destination when I'm running around the city. I don't pull it up when I'm leaving my home to go somewhere I've been 500 times before.
mjlee 2y ago
You might like https://citymapper.com https://citymapper.com Lots of features but I'm not sure how many are available in Tokyo to be fair. In London I can ask it to take me home and get presented with a list of methods that optimise for cost, walking distance, speed, changes, accessibility, etc.

by nox101 2y ago

bongodongobob 2y ago

[flagged]

nox101 2y ago
without more info you can't know that. further. I want to go to one app. If I want to go to Geary and 24th, there is no train. I don't want to have to take the extra step of thinking about where I want to go and then having to choose the appropriate app. one app will do

inejge 2y ago

> Maybe I'm not understanding the use case. I don't want to "take the train". The use case is routine. A lot of people, most of the time, do indeed want to "take the train". Heroic feats of real-time planning have their place, and it's great to have tools that help you with that, but routine can be covered with much simpler tools just as well. Even in the Tokyo scenario you gave (which is fascinating -- thank you!) Google gives 30-40 min. for most public transit options, so for rough planning they're all equivalent. Taxi is faster, and bicycle is almost at par.

nox101 2y ago
never met that person. as someone that has long lived in cities with amazing transportation (sf is not one of those with good transportation) there are too many options and people always want whatever is best now, not routine. you're out drinking - which mode is last. you're on the east side of X, which route is closest. you're tired, does any route guauntee a seat. etc.... Berlin, London, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore, Kyoto, Osaka. All this way . there is no "one train"
- michaelt 2y ago
  > never met that person. Hello! Now you have. In many cities certain parts of the transit network follow a star / hub-and-spoke layout. The station nearest to my house is on a spoke, and has trains going south and those going north. So for me, an in-home train display only really needs to show the next train in each direction. And a lot of transit decisions are conditional on things the planning app doesn't know. Am I comfortable riding a hire bike, appropriately dressed, and carrying a helmet? Do I already have a return ticket for the light rail making it the obvious choice? Am I the kind of person who enjoys a brisk 20 minute walk? Combine that with the fact that the multimodal transit apps don't understand fares, and I find it's simpler to just start the taxi app if you need a taxi.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    > Combine that with the fact that the multimodal transit apps don't understand fares Kakao Maps will give you exact timing and fares for every mode except air > In many cities certain parts of the transit network follow a star / hub-and-spoke layout Yeah those who live on a spoke and mostly go back and forth that spoke are a minority because the farthter away from the center the more space between the spokes:)
- reportgunner 2y ago
  I feel like the OP is overcomplicating the solution, I don't own a car and all commuting is basically either: - bus/train/tram crosses my stop 5 times a day - its trivial to learn the 5 times - bus/train/tram crosses my stop more than 5 times a day - i just show up at the stop and wait Perhaps my point of view is like this because I'm in Europe, I can't tell really.

numpad0 2y ago

Experiences with public transit in central Tokyo is don't generalize to the world. It's as pointless as talking in-store shopping or dining experience based solely on that inside a Disneyland. Just tapping Suica takes couple times less than what takes you elsewhere, if at all supported.

rsynnott 2y ago

> So for me, I actually want what Google Maps gives me (or tries to give me). One thing I find is that Google Maps really, really assumes that walking is very very bad and no-one wants to do it. So for instance, if I'm going to a particular place I will get a 39 bus and then walk 15 minutes. If I ask Google how to get there, I'll get a route with two transfers; if the stars align it'll take about as long as one-bus plus walk. So if I want Google to tell me when the 39 bus is coming, I'll have to lie about where I'm going. (Also, at least where I am Google's realtime data is questionable, with the data from the operator and some other third parties being more reliable.)

16mb 2y ago
I had the same problems with Google Maps. I ended up using Apple Maps in Japan and it gave much more realistic routes
creer 2y ago
> Google Maps really, really assumes Indeed, they assume all kinds of things - with no option to customize. For example, they assume that a 1 or 2 minute transfer will happen. Which you might want to override, but can't. You have your reasons to want to route through Caltrain instead of BART... and you can't. This is a characteristic of the brand really: Google people know what's good for you. I mean, them.

crazygringo 2y ago

For your daily commute, you really do just want to "take the train". If the train is broken or the workers are on strike, that will be reflected in the unexpected absence of live trains listed. I pull up Google Maps and plug in my destination when I'm running around the city. I don't pull it up when I'm leaving my home to go somewhere I've been 500 times before.

mjlee 2y ago

You might like https://citymapper.com https://citymapper.com Lots of features but I'm not sure how many are available in Tokyo to be fair. In London I can ask it to take me home and get presented with a list of methods that optimise for cost, walking distance, speed, changes, accessibility, etc.