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All of this seems to be dancing around the actual question: are people getting dumber? It's not possible to look at modern trends in the US and answer anything

by johnea 2y ago

All of this seems to be dancing around the actual question: are people getting dumber? It's not possible to look at modern trends in the US and answer anything but, yes. When a major portion of the US population can believe that space lasers are guiding hurricanes along the contrails, there has obviously been a major reduction in intelligence, regardless of IQ test results. The pandemic led to a quantum leap, downward, in intelligence across the US. The rise of asocial media's viral influenzas are significantly to blame. A person's imagined ideals are held to be more real than physical reality. There is no doubt that across the breadth of the US population, intelligence has significantly declined.

jemmyw 2y ago
That is not proof that people are getting dumber. For a start, believing stupid things is somewhat orthogonal to the number you get on an IQ test. It is not purely a test of logic and reasoning. There have always been a large number of credulous folks. I would say that what we're seeing recently is a result of connecting those people together on the internet, which also exposes them en masse to those would would take advantage. Instead of local gossip, people are able to participate at a regional, national and global level. Before the internet, and social media in particular, the cost barrier to communicate this sort of ridiculousness was too high.
drcwpl 2y ago
I agree "All of this seems to be dancing around the actual question: are people getting dumber? It's not possible to look at modern trends in the US and answer anything but, yes." Same in Europe too
JohnBooty 2y ago
When a major portion of the US population can believe that space lasers are guiding hurricanes along the contrails, there has obviously been a major reduction in intelligence, regardless of IQ test results. The trend you're talking about is a real problem, for sure. This society has some serious problems. I'd absolutely not describe that as a sudden plunge in the sort of acute intelligence that is measured by IQ tests. Think about the great misinformation campaigns and widespread delusions in history. To jump to the most obvious example: do you really think the German people became literally dumber during the rule of you-know-who in 1933-1945, when a significant portion of the population fervently supported his lies? And then suddenly became smarter again? What you're describing is a social problem, not a biological one.
tourmalinetaco 2y ago
Believing obvious lies is orthogonal to IQ, as stated before. It‘s not that people are getting “dumb”, but that people are falling into politically-focused echo chambers and believe stupid things because “trusted” people say so. I mean just look at how many people, even doctors and researchers who should know better, believed the, often contradictory, statements Fauci made during Covid. I mean there was and still is genuine belief that face masks of any kind stop you from getting sick, when that’s simply not reality. Only surgical masks applied properly provide the right seal, but even those are meant to mostly prevent others from getting sick. Yet we still have people who believe they’re some holy barrier against illness.
- M95D 2y ago
  Beliving stupid things can only happen when the person can't dismiss those things as impossible or at least very improbable. That can happen: 1) due to IQ becoming more specialized (they can't reason to reach the logical conclusion) and 2) due to education becoming more and more specialized and lacking in the general all-domains knowledge and common sense (they don't have the basics to start any reasoning logic).

by johnea 2y ago

jemmyw 2y ago

That is not proof that people are getting dumber. For a start, believing stupid things is somewhat orthogonal to the number you get on an IQ test. It is not purely a test of logic and reasoning. There have always been a large number of credulous folks. I would say that what we're seeing recently is a result of connecting those people together on the internet, which also exposes them en masse to those would would take advantage. Instead of local gossip, people are able to participate at a regional, national and global level. Before the internet, and social media in particular, the cost barrier to communicate this sort of ridiculousness was too high.

drcwpl 2y ago

I agree "All of this seems to be dancing around the actual question: are people getting dumber? It's not possible to look at modern trends in the US and answer anything but, yes." Same in Europe too

JohnBooty 2y ago

When a major portion of the US population can believe that space lasers are guiding hurricanes along the contrails, there has obviously been a major reduction in intelligence, regardless of IQ test results. The trend you're talking about is a real problem, for sure. This society has some serious problems. I'd absolutely not describe that as a sudden plunge in the sort of acute intelligence that is measured by IQ tests. Think about the great misinformation campaigns and widespread delusions in history. To jump to the most obvious example: do you really think the German people became literally dumber during the rule of you-know-who in 1933-1945, when a significant portion of the population fervently supported his lies? And then suddenly became smarter again? What you're describing is a social problem, not a biological one.

tourmalinetaco 2y ago

Believing obvious lies is orthogonal to IQ, as stated before. It‘s not that people are getting “dumb”, but that people are falling into politically-focused echo chambers and believe stupid things because “trusted” people say so. I mean just look at how many people, even doctors and researchers who should know better, believed the, often contradictory, statements Fauci made during Covid. I mean there was and still is genuine belief that face masks of any kind stop you from getting sick, when that’s simply not reality. Only surgical masks applied properly provide the right seal, but even those are meant to mostly prevent others from getting sick. Yet we still have people who believe they’re some holy barrier against illness.

M95D 2y ago
Beliving stupid things can only happen when the person can't dismiss those things as impossible or at least very improbable. That can happen: 1) due to IQ becoming more specialized (they can't reason to reach the logical conclusion) and 2) due to education becoming more and more specialized and lacking in the general all-domains knowledge and common sense (they don't have the basics to start any reasoning logic).