4 ms·

Your grandmother didn't change; the world around her, the world she was brought up in, changed. She's not a nut simply because she refused to conform. She's a p

Your grandmother didn't change; the world around her, the world she was brought up in, changed. She's not a nut simply because she refused to conform. She's a product of her environment just like you, and when she got older, her willingness to adapt to an ever-changing environment waned. It will happen to you, too.

tombert 2y ago
No, she's definitely a nut. I really hate that people that are sufficiently old enough just get a pass from a large part of society because "they're a product of their time". Well they're living in my time now, and I will judge them by the standards of my time. I think it's wrong to decline a person from a job or from a loan just because they're old, but if that's the standard then it seems to me that I should judge them like I would anyone else. If my grandmother wants to insult Mexicans and call them all "lazy and living off the system" in front of my Mexican immigrant wife [1], she's of course allowed to say that but I don't feel even a modicum of guilt for calling her a nut or an idiot in the process. Whether or not it happens to me is irrelevant. I would hope that future generations hold me to the standard of their time while they and I are living concurrently. [1] Actual quote.
- ravenstine 2y ago
  Where do you draw the line? Are most people from the near past a "nut" in some respect? Your case is more extreme, but pretty much all of my elders are nuts in one way or another in regards to obsolete beliefs. My own parents, for instance, who are otherwise intelligent people, still believe minimum wage should be $6.75 even though they also believe inflation has made groceries too expensive. Are they just stuck in the past or are they nutty?
  - tombert 2y ago
    I don't have a strictly defined "line", though overt racism is pretty much always past it. If you're alive and not in a mental institution today, then I don't feel bad judging you by the same standards as everyone else. If an 80 year old says something racist or sexist, I really don't care if that stuff was acceptable when they were 15: it's not acceptable now. Based on what you described of your parents, I wouldn't call them nuts just based on that. ETA: I'd like to clarify a bit; even though I don't agree with your parents in this example, and I think they're wrong, being wrong doesn't imply "nut". I guess I view it as a matter of degree. I think overt racism is way worse than being a bit wrong about what minimum wage should be, and while, as I said, I don't have a strict line, the line does more or less exist.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    And don't forget you can make some pretty sweeping generalizations about how young people are nuts, too. With similar justification: "We're different, so you are crazy."
    - tombert 2y ago
      Sure, and if a young person does something nutty then I'd call them a nut. It's not hypocritical on my end to do this. My other grandmother is the same age as my idiot grandmother, and yet she's managed to somehow not be really racist around my wife. I guess I don't know for sure what's in her brain, but at least outwardly I wouldn't classify her as a racist, so please don't misinterpret what I say: being old doesn't inherently make you a nut. If a young person says something dumb or offense, it's perfectly fine in my mind to hold them to the same standard.
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    > still believe minimum wage should be $6.75 even though they also believe inflation has made groceries too expensive. Are they just stuck in the past or are they nutty? They're nutty. Other older people manage to understand the value of things and wages in the world now in comparison to when they were younger. I'm only in my 40s, I get surprised by changes since I was in my 20s, but each surprise is an update.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- JohnFen 2y ago
  I think that thinking someone is a "nut" is an extreme position that should done very rarely. "Everyone seems crazy when you don't understand their point of view." It's supportable to say that you strongly disagree with someone's worldview, but that alone doesn't make them a nut.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I mentioned that in a sibling comment, however I think overt racism crosses into the “nut” territory.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      I get what you're saying, but I disagree that overt racism all by itself means the racist is crazy. I strongly disagree with the stance and think that it's immoral and idiotic, but not necessarily crazy.
      - tombert 2y ago
        This is getting into uselessly-pedantic-at-best territory.

tombert 2y ago

No, she's definitely a nut. I really hate that people that are sufficiently old enough just get a pass from a large part of society because "they're a product of their time". Well they're living in my time now, and I will judge them by the standards of my time. I think it's wrong to decline a person from a job or from a loan just because they're old, but if that's the standard then it seems to me that I should judge them like I would anyone else. If my grandmother wants to insult Mexicans and call them all "lazy and living off the system" in front of my Mexican immigrant wife [1], she's of course allowed to say that but I don't feel even a modicum of guilt for calling her a nut or an idiot in the process. Whether or not it happens to me is irrelevant. I would hope that future generations hold me to the standard of their time while they and I are living concurrently. [1] Actual quote.

ravenstine 2y ago
Where do you draw the line? Are most people from the near past a "nut" in some respect? Your case is more extreme, but pretty much all of my elders are nuts in one way or another in regards to obsolete beliefs. My own parents, for instance, who are otherwise intelligent people, still believe minimum wage should be $6.75 even though they also believe inflation has made groceries too expensive. Are they just stuck in the past or are they nutty?
- tombert 2y ago
  I don't have a strictly defined "line", though overt racism is pretty much always past it. If you're alive and not in a mental institution today, then I don't feel bad judging you by the same standards as everyone else. If an 80 year old says something racist or sexist, I really don't care if that stuff was acceptable when they were 15: it's not acceptable now. Based on what you described of your parents, I wouldn't call them nuts just based on that. ETA: I'd like to clarify a bit; even though I don't agree with your parents in this example, and I think they're wrong, being wrong doesn't imply "nut". I guess I view it as a matter of degree. I think overt racism is way worse than being a bit wrong about what minimum wage should be, and while, as I said, I don't have a strict line, the line does more or less exist.
- kbelder 2y ago
  And don't forget you can make some pretty sweeping generalizations about how young people are nuts, too. With similar justification: "We're different, so you are crazy."
  - tombert 2y ago
    Sure, and if a young person does something nutty then I'd call them a nut. It's not hypocritical on my end to do this. My other grandmother is the same age as my idiot grandmother, and yet she's managed to somehow not be really racist around my wife. I guess I don't know for sure what's in her brain, but at least outwardly I wouldn't classify her as a racist, so please don't misinterpret what I say: being old doesn't inherently make you a nut. If a young person says something dumb or offense, it's perfectly fine in my mind to hold them to the same standard.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  > still believe minimum wage should be $6.75 even though they also believe inflation has made groceries too expensive. Are they just stuck in the past or are they nutty? They're nutty. Other older people manage to understand the value of things and wages in the world now in comparison to when they were younger. I'm only in my 40s, I get surprised by changes since I was in my 20s, but each surprise is an update.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
JohnFen 2y ago
I think that thinking someone is a "nut" is an extreme position that should done very rarely. "Everyone seems crazy when you don't understand their point of view." It's supportable to say that you strongly disagree with someone's worldview, but that alone doesn't make them a nut.
- tombert 2y ago
  I mentioned that in a sibling comment, however I think overt racism crosses into the “nut” territory.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I get what you're saying, but I disagree that overt racism all by itself means the racist is crazy. I strongly disagree with the stance and think that it's immoral and idiotic, but not necessarily crazy.
    - tombert 2y ago
      This is getting into uselessly-pedantic-at-best territory.