3 ms·

Serge Semin's Goodbye to the Linux Kernel

34 points by airhangerf15 2y ago

andyjohnson0 2y ago
Context: Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russi...
rurban 2y ago
And finally someone cared to post the exact reasons of the removal, still an extremely immature handling of the situation. When will they be able to act like grown ups? https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/e7d548a7fc835f9f3c9cb2e5ed97dfdfa164813f.camel@HansenPartnership.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/e7d548a7fc835f9f3c9cb2e5ed97dfd...
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Sometimes simply there is not a good mature way to handle things, just different shades of wrong answers. Probably it was difficult also for them to say goodbye to many close friends and talented collaborators that work with them for many years before 2021. We should try to put ourselves in their shoes also. I can't see how it could be done in a different way.
  - rurban 2y ago
    Of course there was a mature way, as any other major project would have handled it. Just see the third email on that matter. The first by Gregg was unprofessional (did he not anticipate the uproar?), the 2nd by Linus childish beyond repair (worse than the other prominent manchild Elon Musk), the third by James Bottomley finally ok. He even had to excuse the poor handling before.
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      What I'm trying to say is that (I assume) it must have been emotionally difficult to Kernel's team also. We all are humans and don't always take the optimum paths in our decisions.
sampo 2y ago
Some context: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Compliance-Requirements https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Compliance-Requirements https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932923
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Side-note, NTB is the shit and I wish we saw it more. A computer can act as a pcie-device to another computer & it's basically free interconnect at enormous bandwidth (over short distances) for free. It was the first subsystem mentioned and hell yeah to it.
pvaldes 2y ago
The problem is that Russia has marked on fire in the brain of westerners the feeling that can't be trusted anymore with nothing remotely close to critical digital devices like the Linux kernel. This feeling will last for a lot of time. The bad behavior, countless sponsored sabotage attempts against the west and huge resources spent in the troll farms to attack victims on internet, had collapsed into this current zeitgeist of enough is enough. About the guy, I'm convinced that is just collateral damage of this situation, as many other (but I wouldn't want to be the unfortunate guy or girl with the job of stopping people with dubious goals to infiltrate in the kernel team, year after year). His letter talks about somebody extremely polite and intelligent in their discourse. Seems to have done a stellar job on the kernel also, but is just another Russian hit by Putins insanity. Thanks for your time and talent and good luck, man. You deserved better.
- airhangerf15 2y ago
  > The bad behavior, countless sponsored sabotage attempts against the west and huge resources spent in the troll farms to attack victims on internet, had collapsed into this current zeitgeist of enough is enough. This is the United States. This is China. This is Israel. This is the entirety of the EU. This is the Saudis. EVERY COUNTRY HAS AN INTERNET INTELLIGENCE UNIT! They are all constantly meddling in everyone else's affairs. There are ZERO GOOD ACTORS. If anything this shows that the Linux Kernel really isn't "open" anymore. It's dependent on all the corporate sponsorship by dozens of companies tied to big industry labor markets. Redhat/IBM, Intel and dozens of others have claws in a once open project. Now the Kernel itself cannot be a bastion of openness where people write software for software sake. The entirety of Open Source is getting weird, hostile and political. With the recent hit piece of RMS, I think it's very likely several industrial leaders want to gut the FSF and any other group that is successful at writing good open source software that doesn't adhere to the growing boot of CoCs.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Find me a video of a relevant figure in the EU shouting that Moscow must be nuked. I could point to several videos of relevant politicians and popular TV people in Russia threatening with turning London or Paris into ashes. So nope, not everybody is behaving equal. Two countries in the list are simply living on another planet. Rushing to see who can violate more international laws in a year. One is Russia, and the other is Israel, currently attacking the blue helmets to add insult to injury. I want to believe that the other play under some rules at least.
djaouen 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCSbIzkuk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCSbIzkuk0
lostmsu 2y ago
To give you yet another perspective on this, one of the replies on the Russian IT portal to these news was "а что случилось?" ("why? what have happened?"), another being "а нас-то за что?" ("why us?"), which is a sarcastic comment about both the state censorship and the remaining folk's acceptance of the censorship + semi-active involvement in killing people in a "business as usual" kind of manner.

34 points by airhangerf15 2y ago

Context: Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russi...

rurban 2y ago

And finally someone cared to post the exact reasons of the removal, still an extremely immature handling of the situation. When will they be able to act like grown ups? https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/e7d548a7fc835f9f3c9cb2e5ed97dfdfa164813f.camel@HansenPartnership.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/e7d548a7fc835f9f3c9cb2e5ed97dfd...

pvaldes 2y ago
Sometimes simply there is not a good mature way to handle things, just different shades of wrong answers. Probably it was difficult also for them to say goodbye to many close friends and talented collaborators that work with them for many years before 2021. We should try to put ourselves in their shoes also. I can't see how it could be done in a different way.
- rurban 2y ago
  Of course there was a mature way, as any other major project would have handled it. Just see the third email on that matter. The first by Gregg was unprofessional (did he not anticipate the uproar?), the 2nd by Linus childish beyond repair (worse than the other prominent manchild Elon Musk), the third by James Bottomley finally ok. He even had to excuse the poor handling before.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    What I'm trying to say is that (I assume) it must have been emotionally difficult to Kernel's team also. We all are humans and don't always take the optimum paths in our decisions.

sampo 2y ago

Some context: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Compliance-Requirements https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Compliance-Requirements https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932923

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Side-note, NTB is the shit and I wish we saw it more. A computer can act as a pcie-device to another computer & it's basically free interconnect at enormous bandwidth (over short distances) for free. It was the first subsystem mentioned and hell yeah to it.

pvaldes 2y ago

The problem is that Russia has marked on fire in the brain of westerners the feeling that can't be trusted anymore with nothing remotely close to critical digital devices like the Linux kernel. This feeling will last for a lot of time. The bad behavior, countless sponsored sabotage attempts against the west and huge resources spent in the troll farms to attack victims on internet, had collapsed into this current zeitgeist of enough is enough. About the guy, I'm convinced that is just collateral damage of this situation, as many other (but I wouldn't want to be the unfortunate guy or girl with the job of stopping people with dubious goals to infiltrate in the kernel team, year after year). His letter talks about somebody extremely polite and intelligent in their discourse. Seems to have done a stellar job on the kernel also, but is just another Russian hit by Putins insanity. Thanks for your time and talent and good luck, man. You deserved better.

airhangerf15 2y ago
> The bad behavior, countless sponsored sabotage attempts against the west and huge resources spent in the troll farms to attack victims on internet, had collapsed into this current zeitgeist of enough is enough. This is the United States. This is China. This is Israel. This is the entirety of the EU. This is the Saudis. EVERY COUNTRY HAS AN INTERNET INTELLIGENCE UNIT! They are all constantly meddling in everyone else's affairs. There are ZERO GOOD ACTORS. If anything this shows that the Linux Kernel really isn't "open" anymore. It's dependent on all the corporate sponsorship by dozens of companies tied to big industry labor markets. Redhat/IBM, Intel and dozens of others have claws in a once open project. Now the Kernel itself cannot be a bastion of openness where people write software for software sake. The entirety of Open Source is getting weird, hostile and political. With the recent hit piece of RMS, I think it's very likely several industrial leaders want to gut the FSF and any other group that is successful at writing good open source software that doesn't adhere to the growing boot of CoCs.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Find me a video of a relevant figure in the EU shouting that Moscow must be nuked. I could point to several videos of relevant politicians and popular TV people in Russia threatening with turning London or Paris into ashes. So nope, not everybody is behaving equal. Two countries in the list are simply living on another planet. Rushing to see who can violate more international laws in a year. One is Russia, and the other is Israel, currently attacking the blue helmets to add insult to injury. I want to believe that the other play under some rules at least.

djaouen 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCSbIzkuk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCSbIzkuk0

lostmsu 2y ago

To give you yet another perspective on this, one of the replies on the Russian IT portal to these news was "а что случилось?" ("why? what have happened?"), another being "а нас-то за что?" ("why us?"), which is a sarcastic comment about both the state censorship and the remaining folk's acceptance of the censorship + semi-active involvement in killing people in a "business as usual" kind of manner.