5 ms·

Whilst I think Apple took too long to look at this bug, the instructions in the given test case are, for me at least, ambiguous: 1. Hold one finger down in the

Whilst I think Apple took too long to look at this bug, the instructions in the given test case are, for me at least, ambiguous: 1. Hold one finger down in the blue area above OK, that's easy enough :) 2. Touch straight down with another finger - don't move your fingers on the surface And here's where the confusion lies; I thought you wanted the tester to slide their finger down the screen or something like that. From the video it appears that you want to ensure that they "hold another finger on the blue area" or something like that. Now, I confess that I don't own an iPhone, so couldn't test whether that made much of a difference, but that could be one reason why they rejected your test case. If in doubt blame incompetence, not malice :)

ktizo 14y ago
I thought you wanted the tester to slide their finger down the screen or something like that So how does that level up with the instruction : don't move your fingers on the surface ? Please never try using any industrial machinery.
- i_cannot_hack 14y ago
  I was also confused by the instruction. The wording "straight down" is generally used in the context of positioning on the screen, and not used to describe the action of placing your fingers on the screen. Since it never specifies where one should put the second finger, "straight down" is naturally interpreted as a position, not an action. Might be we are all just stupid, but the best instructions are those that even stupid people can understand. If your natural response to ambiguous instructions are "you're just too stupid", please stay away from designing any instructions for industrial machinery.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    It isn't ambiguous in the slightest as it tells you not to move your fingers on the screen, so the only reasonable conclusion from this is that the direction down is from above the screen onto the surface, not laterally across the surface. And this instruction is part of the same statement, not divorced from it, so the context is perfectly clear unless you don't bother finish reading the sentence before deciding what it means. Also, I was not meaning that the person reading was stupid, but that they were careless in their reading of the instruction, which is the sort of thing that can lead you to counting in base nine for the rest of your life, if applied to anything big and heavy that spins.
    - ta12121 14y ago
      To me, a speaker of U.S. English, "straight down" implies movement, making the instructions confusing. A non-motive indication of position would be "straight below".
      - ktizo 14y ago
        Of course it implies movement. You have to move your finger to touch the screen. If it said straight down and had no qualifier, then it would be confusing as then down could have two common meanings. However it does have a qualifier within the same statement that makes it extremely clear that the motion described is not a motion across the screen.
        ta12121 14y ago
        Humans don't parse language the way computers do. When they see a phrase commonly associated with movement the concept of movement will enter their minds, even if a precise analysis of the sentence does not indicate movement.
        ktizo 14y ago
        I am dumbfounded. Do you live in flatland? Take me to the roundest polygon you know, they might get this. Analysis of the sentence does indicate movement, and that is because there is movement. This is because your finger needs to move down to touch the screen. There are more than two dimensions of motion when describing fingers. And this does not change just because a screen is involved.
      - ealloc 14y ago
        I would phrase it as "press into the screen with another finger" maybe. Common screen coordinates (to me) are left/right (x), up/down (y), and in/out (z). The instruction is trying to refer to the z coord, but using the common word for the y coord.
        14y ago
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
s_henry_paulson 14y ago
The way that they handled it suggested that they knew what they were doing, and recognized it as an actual bug.
phoboslab 14y ago
I'm not a native speaker, so these instructions may very well be ambiguous. Any suggestions on how to clarify it? Back then, I built the test case and asked on twitter if anybody else could confirm the bug. I got several answers (e.g. one from mrdoob within the minute: https://twitter.com/mrdoob/statuses/6896165488427008 https://twitter.com/mrdoob/statuses/6896165488427008 ) so I thought the instructions were fine.
- ta12121 14y ago
  1. Touch the screen in the blue area with one finger and hold the finger there. 2. Use another finger to touch the screen somewhere below the first finger. 3. Lift your second finger and repeat step 2.
  - rdl 14y ago
    You may want to say "touch (but do not drag)"
- mjschultz 14y ago
  1. Press and hold a finger in the blue area (do not move this finger) 2. Tap a second finger somewhere else in the same blue area (again, do not move your finger only tap) 3. Observe the orange bar. It should become green when both finger are touching the screen. Response time should be near instantaneous. It is not. Additionally, about 1 out of 3 touches results in an inconsistent state in which the bar remains green after both fingers are removed. I'd remove the "straight down" part altogether.
- mcgwiz 14y ago
  Use the widest established terms possible: "tap", and "tap and hold". 1. Observe that the feedback bar above the blue area is orange. 2. Tap and hold the blue area. 3. While still holding, tap and hold a different part of the blue area with a second finger. 4. Observe that the feedback bar is now green. 5. While still holding with the first finger, stop holding with the second finger. 6. Observe that the feedback bar is now orange. 7. While still holding with the first finger, again tap and hold a different part of the blue area with the second finger. 8. It is expected that the feedback bar be green at this point. However observe the feedback bar actually remains orange.
breakall 14y ago
Put it another way -- he wants to run and jump at the same time! You know, the way you would in Super Mario on the original NES and every platform game since.
dclowd9901 14y ago
If I recall correctly, the ocarina app suffered from this same issue. If he offset-aligns the contact areas, he should be able to get around the issue.
pvidler 14y ago
Just tried his test case and at first I couldn't reproduce it at all. On my iPhone 4S, you have to do the second finger tapping quite quickly for it to go wrong -- just touching it the way he does in the video is not triggering it for me.

ktizo 14y ago

I thought you wanted the tester to slide their finger down the screen or something like that So how does that level up with the instruction : don't move your fingers on the surface ? Please never try using any industrial machinery.

i_cannot_hack 14y ago
I was also confused by the instruction. The wording "straight down" is generally used in the context of positioning on the screen, and not used to describe the action of placing your fingers on the screen. Since it never specifies where one should put the second finger, "straight down" is naturally interpreted as a position, not an action. Might be we are all just stupid, but the best instructions are those that even stupid people can understand. If your natural response to ambiguous instructions are "you're just too stupid", please stay away from designing any instructions for industrial machinery.
- ktizo 14y ago
  It isn't ambiguous in the slightest as it tells you not to move your fingers on the screen, so the only reasonable conclusion from this is that the direction down is from above the screen onto the surface, not laterally across the surface. And this instruction is part of the same statement, not divorced from it, so the context is perfectly clear unless you don't bother finish reading the sentence before deciding what it means. Also, I was not meaning that the person reading was stupid, but that they were careless in their reading of the instruction, which is the sort of thing that can lead you to counting in base nine for the rest of your life, if applied to anything big and heavy that spins.
  - ta12121 14y ago
    To me, a speaker of U.S. English, "straight down" implies movement, making the instructions confusing. A non-motive indication of position would be "straight below".
    - ktizo 14y ago
      Of course it implies movement. You have to move your finger to touch the screen. If it said straight down and had no qualifier, then it would be confusing as then down could have two common meanings. However it does have a qualifier within the same statement that makes it extremely clear that the motion described is not a motion across the screen.
      - ta12121 14y ago
        Humans don't parse language the way computers do. When they see a phrase commonly associated with movement the concept of movement will enter their minds, even if a precise analysis of the sentence does not indicate movement.
        ktizo 14y ago
        I am dumbfounded. Do you live in flatland? Take me to the roundest polygon you know, they might get this. Analysis of the sentence does indicate movement, and that is because there is movement. This is because your finger needs to move down to touch the screen. There are more than two dimensions of motion when describing fingers. And this does not change just because a screen is involved.
    - ealloc 14y ago
      I would phrase it as "press into the screen with another finger" maybe. Common screen coordinates (to me) are left/right (x), up/down (y), and in/out (z). The instruction is trying to refer to the z coord, but using the common word for the y coord.
      - 14y ago
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

s_henry_paulson 14y ago

The way that they handled it suggested that they knew what they were doing, and recognized it as an actual bug.

phoboslab 14y ago

I'm not a native speaker, so these instructions may very well be ambiguous. Any suggestions on how to clarify it? Back then, I built the test case and asked on twitter if anybody else could confirm the bug. I got several answers (e.g. one from mrdoob within the minute: https://twitter.com/mrdoob/statuses/6896165488427008 https://twitter.com/mrdoob/statuses/6896165488427008 ) so I thought the instructions were fine.

ta12121 14y ago
1. Touch the screen in the blue area with one finger and hold the finger there. 2. Use another finger to touch the screen somewhere below the first finger. 3. Lift your second finger and repeat step 2.
- rdl 14y ago
  You may want to say "touch (but do not drag)"
mjschultz 14y ago
1. Press and hold a finger in the blue area (do not move this finger) 2. Tap a second finger somewhere else in the same blue area (again, do not move your finger only tap) 3. Observe the orange bar. It should become green when both finger are touching the screen. Response time should be near instantaneous. It is not. Additionally, about 1 out of 3 touches results in an inconsistent state in which the bar remains green after both fingers are removed. I'd remove the "straight down" part altogether.
mcgwiz 14y ago
Use the widest established terms possible: "tap", and "tap and hold". 1. Observe that the feedback bar above the blue area is orange. 2. Tap and hold the blue area. 3. While still holding, tap and hold a different part of the blue area with a second finger. 4. Observe that the feedback bar is now green. 5. While still holding with the first finger, stop holding with the second finger. 6. Observe that the feedback bar is now orange. 7. While still holding with the first finger, again tap and hold a different part of the blue area with the second finger. 8. It is expected that the feedback bar be green at this point. However observe the feedback bar actually remains orange.

breakall 14y ago

Put it another way -- he wants to run and jump at the same time! You know, the way you would in Super Mario on the original NES and every platform game since.

dclowd9901 14y ago

If I recall correctly, the ocarina app suffered from this same issue. If he offset-aligns the contact areas, he should be able to get around the issue.

pvidler 14y ago

Just tried his test case and at first I couldn't reproduce it at all. On my iPhone 4S, you have to do the second finger tapping quite quickly for it to go wrong -- just touching it the way he does in the video is not triggering it for me.