5 ms·

Yikes.. of course they filed in the 5th Circuit too. Why pretend there’s any consistent judiciary when you can just forum shop for the most reactionary Appeals

Yikes.. of course they filed in the 5th Circuit too. Why pretend there’s any consistent judiciary when you can just forum shop for the most reactionary Appeals court in recent history?

edmundsauto 2y ago
I feel the ACLU or other legal action committee is going to have to DoS this circuit to prevent it. If you can’t get on the docket for 10 years, it becomes less of an option.
Forgeties79 2y ago
I have nothing to add other than I am so tired of watching the 5th circuit just blatantly legislate from the bench (and in such a partisan way). It's basically a 2nd legislative arm at this point controlled by one political party.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > I am so tired of watching the 5th circuit just blatantly legislate from the bench (and in such a partisan way) Folks have been similarly complaining about the Ninth for some time, which has its rulings reversed about as often as the Fifth’s [1]. [1] https://ballotpedia.org/SCOTUS_case_reversal_rates_(2007_-_Present) https://ballotpedia.org/SCOTUS_case_reversal_rates_(2007_-_P...
  - falcolas 2y ago
    Nuke 'em both then. Seriously. Partisan politics, regardless of the side they take, should not belong in the judiciary.
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      Indeed. "But both sides do it," they say? No worries. There's no particular harm in destroying both.
    - kiba 2y ago
      We should have our judges confirmed by a randomly selected jury.
  - camel_Snake 2y ago
    This is a wonderful source - thank you for providing it.
  - n8henrie 2y ago
    Not knowing much about this and just going from your link (honestly I don't even know which side the 5th and 9th are on)... 5/10 and 8/10 are not all that close. 5/10 seems to give the 9th one of the lower rates of reversal, given that so many of them are 1/1.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > 5/10 and 8/10 are not all that close That’s only the recent term. Scroll down to the first vertical bar graph. Sixth is reversed over 80% of the time, Ninth right behind it. Fifth, Eighth and the State Courts comprise the second cohort in the 70-ish percent range. Note that these are conditional probabilities; we’re observing cases SCOTUS took on.
      - Forgeties79 2y ago
        This reads to me like cherry-picking. I don't know why we should just ignore the most recent trends in favor of older ones.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Because one single term departure from a mean isn't much of a trend. when you have a 17 year data set and a 1 year data set, I dont think it is very reasonable to limit examination to a single year unless there is a reason why that might be different. The most recent year is in the larger data set.
        Forgeties79 2y ago
        I can concede that somewhat, fair point. Frankly I shouldn’t get bogged down in these numbers because as I said in another comment: I'm not sure how the 9th possibly having issues somehow undermines the problems with the 5th. This is pretty textbook "whataboutism." I'm also not sure why reversals are the metric we are going off of here to decide if a court is partisan/legislating from the bench. You're asserting that as if it's self-evident.
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    I'm not sure how the 9th possibly having issues somehow undermines the problems with the 5th. This is pretty textbook "whataboutism." I'm also not sure why reversals are the metric we are going off of here to decide if a court is partisan/legislating from the bench. You're asserting that as if it's self-evident.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Who reverses an appellate circuit ruling? The Supreme court does. The Supreme court is objectively more often of the time Conservative leaning. That a conservative court overturns the 5th as often as it overturns the 9th is in itself telling.
- briandear 2y ago
  And the 9th Circuit hasn’t?
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    I'd be curious to see where you saw me say the 9th circuit hasn't also engaged in this behavior. When we talk about Google or Microsoft or whoever doing something shady/unwanted, do we have to list every other major company that also engages in bad behavior? Am I obligated to list every single appellate court with issues or am I allowed to focus on the one we are talking about right now?
23B1 2y ago
Why pretend lawmakers are doing their job when you can just blame the courts? Chevron flew right past people's heads, didn't it.
- jfengel 2y ago
  I don't think anybody is pretending that lawmakers are doing their jobs. That's why people keep looking to the courts. Congress can't even pass the most fundamental law -- appropriations to keep the government open -- in a timely manner. Everybody is well aware that Congress is incapable of passing any law more pertinent than renaming a post office. Unfortunately, that's the result of everybody's individual Congressperson doing exactly what they're sent to do. Which is: stop the opposing party's legislators from accomplishing anything.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    > I don't think anybody is pretending that lawmakers are doing their jobs. Pick any mainstream rag and I will show you an op-ed that blames the courts. Pick any popular internet social and I will show you the same. I'm not saying the courts aren't activist or partisan mind you, but the problem starts with bad laws made by bad lawmakers.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Yikes.. of course they filed in the 5th Circuit too. Why pretend there’s any consistent judiciary when you can just forum shop for the most reactionary Appeals court in recent history?

edmundsauto 2y ago

I feel the ACLU or other legal action committee is going to have to DoS this circuit to prevent it. If you can’t get on the docket for 10 years, it becomes less of an option.

Forgeties79 2y ago

I have nothing to add other than I am so tired of watching the 5th circuit just blatantly legislate from the bench (and in such a partisan way). It's basically a 2nd legislative arm at this point controlled by one political party.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> I am so tired of watching the 5th circuit just blatantly legislate from the bench (and in such a partisan way) Folks have been similarly complaining about the Ninth for some time, which has its rulings reversed about as often as the Fifth’s [1]. [1] https://ballotpedia.org/SCOTUS_case_reversal_rates_(2007_-_Present) https://ballotpedia.org/SCOTUS_case_reversal_rates_(2007_-_P...
- falcolas 2y ago
  Nuke 'em both then. Seriously. Partisan politics, regardless of the side they take, should not belong in the judiciary.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Indeed. "But both sides do it," they say? No worries. There's no particular harm in destroying both.
  - kiba 2y ago
    We should have our judges confirmed by a randomly selected jury.
- camel_Snake 2y ago
  This is a wonderful source - thank you for providing it.
- n8henrie 2y ago
  Not knowing much about this and just going from your link (honestly I don't even know which side the 5th and 9th are on)... 5/10 and 8/10 are not all that close. 5/10 seems to give the 9th one of the lower rates of reversal, given that so many of them are 1/1.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > 5/10 and 8/10 are not all that close That’s only the recent term. Scroll down to the first vertical bar graph. Sixth is reversed over 80% of the time, Ninth right behind it. Fifth, Eighth and the State Courts comprise the second cohort in the 70-ish percent range. Note that these are conditional probabilities; we’re observing cases SCOTUS took on.
    - Forgeties79 2y ago
      This reads to me like cherry-picking. I don't know why we should just ignore the most recent trends in favor of older ones.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Because one single term departure from a mean isn't much of a trend. when you have a 17 year data set and a 1 year data set, I dont think it is very reasonable to limit examination to a single year unless there is a reason why that might be different. The most recent year is in the larger data set.
        Forgeties79 2y ago
        I can concede that somewhat, fair point. Frankly I shouldn’t get bogged down in these numbers because as I said in another comment: I'm not sure how the 9th possibly having issues somehow undermines the problems with the 5th. This is pretty textbook "whataboutism." I'm also not sure why reversals are the metric we are going off of here to decide if a court is partisan/legislating from the bench. You're asserting that as if it's self-evident.
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  I'm not sure how the 9th possibly having issues somehow undermines the problems with the 5th. This is pretty textbook "whataboutism." I'm also not sure why reversals are the metric we are going off of here to decide if a court is partisan/legislating from the bench. You're asserting that as if it's self-evident.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  Who reverses an appellate circuit ruling? The Supreme court does. The Supreme court is objectively more often of the time Conservative leaning. That a conservative court overturns the 5th as often as it overturns the 9th is in itself telling.
briandear 2y ago
And the 9th Circuit hasn’t?
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  I'd be curious to see where you saw me say the 9th circuit hasn't also engaged in this behavior. When we talk about Google or Microsoft or whoever doing something shady/unwanted, do we have to list every other major company that also engages in bad behavior? Am I obligated to list every single appellate court with issues or am I allowed to focus on the one we are talking about right now?

23B1 2y ago

Why pretend lawmakers are doing their job when you can just blame the courts? Chevron flew right past people's heads, didn't it.

jfengel 2y ago
I don't think anybody is pretending that lawmakers are doing their jobs. That's why people keep looking to the courts. Congress can't even pass the most fundamental law -- appropriations to keep the government open -- in a timely manner. Everybody is well aware that Congress is incapable of passing any law more pertinent than renaming a post office. Unfortunately, that's the result of everybody's individual Congressperson doing exactly what they're sent to do. Which is: stop the opposing party's legislators from accomplishing anything.
- 23B1 2y ago
  > I don't think anybody is pretending that lawmakers are doing their jobs. Pick any mainstream rag and I will show you an op-ed that blames the courts. Pick any popular internet social and I will show you the same. I'm not saying the courts aren't activist or partisan mind you, but the problem starts with bad laws made by bad lawmakers.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]