6 ms·

I had a Rider license for a while but just let it lapse. I've found myself totally satisfied with just VS Code on macOS (it's come a really long way). I'm gla

I had a Rider license for a while but just let it lapse. I've found myself totally satisfied with just VS Code on macOS (it's come a really long way). I'm glad that this move will possibly make .NET more accessible, but I think VSC is in a really good place with C# at the moment and shouldn't be overlooked.

mattferderer 2y ago
VS Code is really good at certain things but it struggles on larger projects & doesn't have near the advanced features. It's a very good choice though for a lot of projects. It's also a great way to try out C#. It has some amazing extensions for certain tasks too.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  VSC feels pretty capable in my books. We have a mono-repo with 100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript, 23k lines of Astro. No issues at all running it on a 2021 14" MacBook Pro with only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD while also running multiple Docker containers for Postgres, Neo4j, Memcached, and LocalStack. My take is that folks should not underestimate VSC; there are certainly things that Rider does better, but VSC is totally viable for modern .NET backend work.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    100k loc is not big. That’s a small-medium sized project.
    - elAhmo 2y ago
      100k lines of code is definitely big and by no means a small project.
      - no_wizard 2y ago
        I’d say medium, edging toward small, especially for the .NET community
      - LandR 2y ago
        For enterprise .NET that's definitely small. I've commonly seen enterprise .NET projects that are in the millions of LOC. And one that was over 10 million.
      - sigseg1v 2y ago
        Just my experience, but at multiple companies, which are in the 50-70 employees range, their C# codebases were over 1 million LOC and I didn't get the feeling that they were exceptionally large or doing anything significantly different. I would put 1 million LOC as "medium enterprise . NET" which would place 100k in the small or possibly medium sized if there was significantly more LOC in another language that is part of the project that you aren't counting (eg. different web front-end).
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      It's not an all C# project; C# only comprises the backend. All in, the mono-repo is somewhere over 250k SLOC with mixed languages (Vue SFC, TS, Astro, JSX, shell). So when VSC is loaded, it's not only handling C#, but also everything else. Point is that VSC is more than capable of handling production scale, multi-language workspaces even on 2021 hardware with only 16GB of RAM.
      - nightski 2y ago
        It's not that VS Code can't load a large project, that is table stakes. It's that the tools it provides to work with those large code bases are like fisher price versions of the Jetbrains equivalents. If one take their tools seriously, and uses them to the maximum extent possible to increase productivity, reliability, and robustness of code then there is just no comparison between the two. Don't get me wrong, I still use VS code for all front-end development and other ecosystems (such as Rust). But when it specifically comes to C#/.NET there is no substitute to Rider in my opinion.
        symlinkk 2y ago
        What tools are missing? It has debugging, a test runner, Intellisense.
        mattferderer 2y ago
        To be fair they're not a great comparison. VS Code starts out as a lightweight code editor & via extensions you can turn it into more of an IDE but it'll take a lot of customization & messing around. Rider is an IDE with all the bells & whistles already included. It also has extensions but they've built it with the most popular things already. Refactoring, debugging, code navigation, formatting & hinting/suggestions are far superior in Rider. They have a lot more advanced features. Check out some YouTube videos by JetBrains to see examples. Don't get me wrong - VS Code is still a great tool & I use it daily. I do wish they would have named it something other than "Code" or "Visual Studio Code" but hey, it's Microsoft. They're famous for terrible bad name choices. Maybe they'll make a copilot to fix that.
  - yungporko 2y ago
    my experience last time i tried it on a decent sized blazor project (about a year ago) was countless false errors and broken syntax highlighting to the point that i had to ignore everything and treat it like a dumb text editor like notepad if i wanted to actually get anything done instead of chasing shadows
- ohnoesjmr 2y ago
  I work on a almost 20 year old C# monolith, with 1000+ projects per solution. It doesn't even load in VS or VSC. Rider needs 16GB of ram, but manages to open it. I try to never close the IDE, as it takes 30mins to open.
wokwokwok 2y ago
What fan boy nonsense is this? The VSC support for c# is miles behind visual studio. Rider isn’t as good either, but it’s certainly better than VSC. Are you heavily using typescript with a bit of c# or a really tiny code base? This comment is incomprehensible to me. Do you never refactor code? There are a lot of sophisticated things you can’t do with VSC. It’s a great editor; but not for c#. The benefit of using it is absolutely zero unless you’re heavily leaning into the other parts of the VSC ecosystem (like a big typescript code base). > it’s come a really long way So has visual studio; and it started off better, and still is. Rider is too. I’m happy to die on this hill; if you’re using VSC for c#, it’s because it’s free, and perhaps good enough for some things; not because it’s better than the alternatives. Even if you’re stuck on a Mac, I can't believe you honestly find VSC an acceptable editor after using rider. All I can say is I certainly do not agree.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript in a monorepo. I use it every day on a 2021 M1 MacBook Pro 16GB/512GB. Works completely fine to the extent that I just let my Rider license lapse.
  - wokwokwok 2y ago
    Well, perhaps anyone who’s thinking about it can do their own research in /r/vscode and read about how much people love c# dev kit. TLDR; it’s not just me. I’m glad you like it and have found a workflow that works for you. I think you’re crazy.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      My point isn't that "people shouldn't use Rider"; I myself had a Rider license and it's a GREAT IDE. My point is "you shouldn't skip C# because you think you need a license for an IDE to be use it professionally". Devs who are already using VSC for doing front-end and want to try full stack can absolutely do heavy lifting in VSC. I let my license lapse not because Rider wasn't a great IDE, but because VSC is fully capable for backend and fullstack work. > I think you're crazy I'll take that as a compliment :D. Even back in 2021 when I was invited to present at the Azure Serverless Conf[0], I chose VSC for my session to showcase that anyone could start developing .NET without expensive licenses (a common myth). [0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/azure-serverless-conf/surfacing-fda-covid-data-using-serverless-functions-and-cosmosdb-with-charles-chen https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/azure-serverless-con...
memsom 2y ago
The C# dev kit plug-in improved VSCode a lot, but it is still under the same licensing as Visual Studio Community. So, you need an account to use it, and it is pretty restricted for commercial use without an MSDN/Visual Studio subscription. If you are using it commercially outside of the terms of the Community license, you are probably using it illegally. Not using the C# Dev kit, the old OmniSharp stuff is miles behind Rider. It is really poor in comparison. I've been a previous subscriber, but I let my license lapse after this announcement. I don;t really need to be on the "latest and greatest" train, and I can get my company to buy me a license if a new feature comes in that I need commercially. I have got a perpetual fallback Rider license, but I will also use the non-commercial licenses to do any OS work in my spare time going forward (which is mostly on Mac and why I had a paid licence initially anyway.)

mattferderer 2y ago

VS Code is really good at certain things but it struggles on larger projects & doesn't have near the advanced features. It's a very good choice though for a lot of projects. It's also a great way to try out C#. It has some amazing extensions for certain tasks too.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
VSC feels pretty capable in my books. We have a mono-repo with 100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript, 23k lines of Astro. No issues at all running it on a 2021 14" MacBook Pro with only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD while also running multiple Docker containers for Postgres, Neo4j, Memcached, and LocalStack. My take is that folks should not underestimate VSC; there are certainly things that Rider does better, but VSC is totally viable for modern .NET backend work.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  100k loc is not big. That’s a small-medium sized project.
  - elAhmo 2y ago
    100k lines of code is definitely big and by no means a small project.
    - no_wizard 2y ago
      I’d say medium, edging toward small, especially for the .NET community
    - LandR 2y ago
      For enterprise .NET that's definitely small. I've commonly seen enterprise .NET projects that are in the millions of LOC. And one that was over 10 million.
    - sigseg1v 2y ago
      Just my experience, but at multiple companies, which are in the 50-70 employees range, their C# codebases were over 1 million LOC and I didn't get the feeling that they were exceptionally large or doing anything significantly different. I would put 1 million LOC as "medium enterprise . NET" which would place 100k in the small or possibly medium sized if there was significantly more LOC in another language that is part of the project that you aren't counting (eg. different web front-end).
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    It's not an all C# project; C# only comprises the backend. All in, the mono-repo is somewhere over 250k SLOC with mixed languages (Vue SFC, TS, Astro, JSX, shell). So when VSC is loaded, it's not only handling C#, but also everything else. Point is that VSC is more than capable of handling production scale, multi-language workspaces even on 2021 hardware with only 16GB of RAM.
    - nightski 2y ago
      It's not that VS Code can't load a large project, that is table stakes. It's that the tools it provides to work with those large code bases are like fisher price versions of the Jetbrains equivalents. If one take their tools seriously, and uses them to the maximum extent possible to increase productivity, reliability, and robustness of code then there is just no comparison between the two. Don't get me wrong, I still use VS code for all front-end development and other ecosystems (such as Rust). But when it specifically comes to C#/.NET there is no substitute to Rider in my opinion.
      - symlinkk 2y ago
        What tools are missing? It has debugging, a test runner, Intellisense.
        mattferderer 2y ago
        To be fair they're not a great comparison. VS Code starts out as a lightweight code editor & via extensions you can turn it into more of an IDE but it'll take a lot of customization & messing around. Rider is an IDE with all the bells & whistles already included. It also has extensions but they've built it with the most popular things already. Refactoring, debugging, code navigation, formatting & hinting/suggestions are far superior in Rider. They have a lot more advanced features. Check out some YouTube videos by JetBrains to see examples. Don't get me wrong - VS Code is still a great tool & I use it daily. I do wish they would have named it something other than "Code" or "Visual Studio Code" but hey, it's Microsoft. They're famous for terrible bad name choices. Maybe they'll make a copilot to fix that.
- yungporko 2y ago
  my experience last time i tried it on a decent sized blazor project (about a year ago) was countless false errors and broken syntax highlighting to the point that i had to ignore everything and treat it like a dumb text editor like notepad if i wanted to actually get anything done instead of chasing shadows
ohnoesjmr 2y ago
I work on a almost 20 year old C# monolith, with 1000+ projects per solution. It doesn't even load in VS or VSC. Rider needs 16GB of ram, but manages to open it. I try to never close the IDE, as it takes 30mins to open.

wokwokwok 2y ago

What fan boy nonsense is this? The VSC support for c# is miles behind visual studio. Rider isn’t as good either, but it’s certainly better than VSC. Are you heavily using typescript with a bit of c# or a really tiny code base? This comment is incomprehensible to me. Do you never refactor code? There are a lot of sophisticated things you can’t do with VSC. It’s a great editor; but not for c#. The benefit of using it is absolutely zero unless you’re heavily leaning into the other parts of the VSC ecosystem (like a big typescript code base). > it’s come a really long way So has visual studio; and it started off better, and still is. Rider is too. I’m happy to die on this hill; if you’re using VSC for c#, it’s because it’s free, and perhaps good enough for some things; not because it’s better than the alternatives. Even if you’re stuck on a Mac, I can't believe you honestly find VSC an acceptable editor after using rider. All I can say is I certainly do not agree.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript in a monorepo. I use it every day on a 2021 M1 MacBook Pro 16GB/512GB. Works completely fine to the extent that I just let my Rider license lapse.
- wokwokwok 2y ago
  Well, perhaps anyone who’s thinking about it can do their own research in /r/vscode and read about how much people love c# dev kit. TLDR; it’s not just me. I’m glad you like it and have found a workflow that works for you. I think you’re crazy.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    My point isn't that "people shouldn't use Rider"; I myself had a Rider license and it's a GREAT IDE. My point is "you shouldn't skip C# because you think you need a license for an IDE to be use it professionally". Devs who are already using VSC for doing front-end and want to try full stack can absolutely do heavy lifting in VSC. I let my license lapse not because Rider wasn't a great IDE, but because VSC is fully capable for backend and fullstack work. > I think you're crazy I'll take that as a compliment :D. Even back in 2021 when I was invited to present at the Azure Serverless Conf[0], I chose VSC for my session to showcase that anyone could start developing .NET without expensive licenses (a common myth). [0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/azure-serverless-conf/surfacing-fda-covid-data-using-serverless-functions-and-cosmosdb-with-charles-chen https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/azure-serverless-con...

memsom 2y ago

The C# dev kit plug-in improved VSCode a lot, but it is still under the same licensing as Visual Studio Community. So, you need an account to use it, and it is pretty restricted for commercial use without an MSDN/Visual Studio subscription. If you are using it commercially outside of the terms of the Community license, you are probably using it illegally. Not using the C# Dev kit, the old OmniSharp stuff is miles behind Rider. It is really poor in comparison. I've been a previous subscriber, but I let my license lapse after this announcement. I don;t really need to be on the "latest and greatest" train, and I can get my company to buy me a license if a new feature comes in that I need commercially. I have got a perpetual fallback Rider license, but I will also use the non-commercial licenses to do any OS work in my spare time going forward (which is mostly on Mac and why I had a paid licence initially anyway.)