6 ms·

How one engineer beat the ban on home computers in socialist Yugoslavia

88 points by sandebert 2y ago

pvg 2y ago
A thread about a year ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37850664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37850664
bojanz 2y ago
They did a reprint of the original magazine from January 1984, to mark its 40 year anniversary. It can still be purchased online at https://prodavnica.pcpress.rs/issue/339/1 https://prodavnica.pcpress.rs/issue/339/1, and they ship internationally. I got my copy a few months ago, wanting to own a small piece of history. You can buy the actual computer kit as well at https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/ https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/, but that one ships only within Serbia.
- swores 2y ago
  > "You can buy the actual computer kit as well at https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/ https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/, but that one ships only within Serbia." Even though the website only allows domestic shipping, I suspect (without knowing anything about that country or their culture) that the sort of company which sells a product like that would be pleased enough by the idea that a foreigner wants to buy it that if you contact them there's a good chance they'd be willing to send it internationally if you paid the shipping cost. The listed price is 8,000 RSD (Serbian Dinars) is equal to ~£57 / ~$74 - so even if the shipping was as expensive as the item itself, it still wouldn't be insanely expensive for someone who really wants it.
  - grujicd 2y ago
    Please note that they're selling only few components specific to Galaksija - 2 eproms with OS and Basic, print board, keyboard mask (don't know what that is) and some plastic base for all that. You'll need CPU, case and other generic components and you'll have to order these elsewhere. They mention they might offer full set later with some partner but not for now. Yeah, I was a bit dissapointed with that, but it's understandable that they don't expect to sell a lot of those, it's not a business, just some nostalgia fueled fun project.
matthewfelgate 2y ago
[flagged]
- FpUser 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      In SFRY?
- ithkuil 2y ago
  The ban wasn't a ban on home computers but rather a ban on foreign imports. One could argue that it spawned the creativity of domestic creatives who built the home computer anyway with the available resources. I'm not personally favouring protectionism of this sort but we have to be fair to the thing we're criticizing and there is plenty to say about the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia without having to resort to claims that they wanted to ban home computers for the sake of it
  - forinti 2y ago
    It was probably a matter of not having enough foreign reserves.
    - Tade0 2y ago
      Most likely, as for the same reason seasonal work in the capitalist west was tolerated, even if it couldn't be officially encouraged.
  - pavlov 2y ago
    Ironically, protectionism is now the hallmark policy of Trumpists who pretend to be anti-communists.
thrance 2y ago
[flagged]
- hunterhod 2y ago
  To be fair, I’ve never seen socialized healthcare conflated with communism. Most people seem to understand the difference.
  - thrance 2y ago
    I mean, Trump has accused Harris of having a "far-left agenda" and of being a "Marxist", when at best she would be center, center-left to an European eye.
    - GardenLetter27 2y ago
      Some of her platform like the race-based "forgivable loans", etc. is very far-left - even in Europe.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      > ...when at best she would be center, center-left to an European eye. You must understand something about her platform and policies, I sure don't. She hasn't said much of substance. All the bitching between the two of them is like watching my children argue.
      - thrance 2y ago
        That is true, but her party's economic policies have been consistently neoliberalist in the recent past.
    - hunterhod 2y ago
      Again, to be fair, she proposed (though now rescinded I believe) price controls on food.
      - thrance 2y ago
voidUpdate 2y ago
There is a good talk about this computer here https://youtu.be/K2chYqir53U https://youtu.be/K2chYqir53U, in the vein of similar talks about the commodore 64 and gameboy, that goes very in depth on the inner workings of the galaksija
rospaya 2y ago
> How one engineer beat the ban on home computers in socialist Yugoslavia The title simply isn't true. There was no ban on home computers, just a value limit for an import. And as the article shows, homegrown computers were common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_systems_from_Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_systems_from_...
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  Thanks for pointing that out! The Guardian is gone to the dogs, since many years now.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    I presume downvotes are coming because it turns out that the person I responded to was overstating their case somewhat. I was quick to presume the Guardian was being sloppy again, and that seems to have not been the case here. Fair enough.
- pookha 2y ago
  It's true from what I can see. They specifically banned the general public from importing any goods worth more than 50 Deutsche Marks (all computers). I'm sure those with connections could get around that and not wind up locked up though but after googling prisons in Yugoslavia I can see why DIY computing became popular.
- grujicd 2y ago
  It was not a ban on home computers, so wording is not the best one, but limiting value for an import is effectively a ban. Especially since there was a significant inflation at that time in Yugoslavia. Import limits were defined in dinars, and if it was enough for let's say Commodore 64 with disk drive, monitor and printer when new limit was introduced, the next year it was barely enough for Spectrum, and afterwards not even for that. If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't), Galaksija computer was planned around this limitation - CPU and other components had to be imported but they were below the import limit. So, in those periods when inflation made importing impossible, there were two main sources of "west" home computers - smuggling, and Yugoslav citizens who went abroad to work for few years were not subject to import limits when returning home with their personal belongings. General idea behind these limits was to strengthen domestic industry, and your list shows that - plethora of home computers made in Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, these computers were not compatible with anything and with no software they were educational tools at best. That's why no one was buying them except schools and other organizations who had no other choice. It changed a bit with Lira as it was PC compatible, but it came a bit later when Yugoslavia started opening up and these import limits were slowly lifted.
whobre 2y ago
Didn’t Sinclair ZX80 also use the CPU instead of a video chip?
- doe_eyes 2y ago
  No, they used a semi-custom chip known as an uncommitted logic array (ULA). It was basically a bunch of building blocks on a die that were designed once for a variety of possible applications, and then reconfigured by the factory to customer's spec. The idea was that most of the design work only needed to be done once, so cranking out customer-specific ASICs was cheaper than a 100% custom design. Now we have FPGAs, so this approach is pretty much obsolete.
  - whobre 2y ago
    I’m pretty sure Zx80 didn’t have the ULA. Speccy definitely did, not sure about ZX81, though.
danielktdoranie 2y ago
Came to the comment section for the socialist cope “well actually”
- cbeach 2y ago
  Apologists for socialism will state the usual: "But that wasn't /real/ socialism" Socialists tend to believe that real socialism hasn't been tried properly yet. That's how they explain the litany of failure. And if anyone wants to try the "but Scandinavia is socialist and look how great they are" trope then bring it on...
sourcepluck 2y ago
https://archive.fo/KAAJC https://archive.fo/KAAJC
- swores 2y ago
  Off topic question: I'm wondering why you shared this link when the article is on a website that doesn't have a paywall and is big enough that it's not at risk of HN traffic being an effective ddos the way smaller websites can be affected. Just being helpful in case someone in the future finds this thread and the original link is dead?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

88 points by sandebert 2y ago

pvg 2y ago

A thread about a year ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37850664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37850664

They did a reprint of the original magazine from January 1984, to mark its 40 year anniversary. It can still be purchased online at https://prodavnica.pcpress.rs/issue/339/1 https://prodavnica.pcpress.rs/issue/339/1, and they ship internationally. I got my copy a few months ago, wanting to own a small piece of history. You can buy the actual computer kit as well at https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/ https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/, but that one ships only within Serbia.

swores 2y ago
> "You can buy the actual computer kit as well at https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/ https://pcpress.rs/galaksija/, but that one ships only within Serbia." Even though the website only allows domestic shipping, I suspect (without knowing anything about that country or their culture) that the sort of company which sells a product like that would be pleased enough by the idea that a foreigner wants to buy it that if you contact them there's a good chance they'd be willing to send it internationally if you paid the shipping cost. The listed price is 8,000 RSD (Serbian Dinars) is equal to ~£57 / ~$74 - so even if the shipping was as expensive as the item itself, it still wouldn't be insanely expensive for someone who really wants it.
- grujicd 2y ago
  Please note that they're selling only few components specific to Galaksija - 2 eproms with OS and Basic, print board, keyboard mask (don't know what that is) and some plastic base for all that. You'll need CPU, case and other generic components and you'll have to order these elsewhere. They mention they might offer full set later with some partner but not for now. Yeah, I was a bit dissapointed with that, but it's understandable that they don't expect to sell a lot of those, it's not a business, just some nostalgia fueled fun project.

matthewfelgate 2y ago

[flagged]

FpUser 2y ago
[flagged]
- throw4950sh06 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    In SFRY?
ithkuil 2y ago
The ban wasn't a ban on home computers but rather a ban on foreign imports. One could argue that it spawned the creativity of domestic creatives who built the home computer anyway with the available resources. I'm not personally favouring protectionism of this sort but we have to be fair to the thing we're criticizing and there is plenty to say about the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia without having to resort to claims that they wanted to ban home computers for the sake of it
- forinti 2y ago
  It was probably a matter of not having enough foreign reserves.
  - Tade0 2y ago
    Most likely, as for the same reason seasonal work in the capitalist west was tolerated, even if it couldn't be officially encouraged.
- pavlov 2y ago
  Ironically, protectionism is now the hallmark policy of Trumpists who pretend to be anti-communists.

thrance 2y ago

[flagged]

hunterhod 2y ago
To be fair, I’ve never seen socialized healthcare conflated with communism. Most people seem to understand the difference.
- thrance 2y ago
  I mean, Trump has accused Harris of having a "far-left agenda" and of being a "Marxist", when at best she would be center, center-left to an European eye.
  - GardenLetter27 2y ago
    Some of her platform like the race-based "forgivable loans", etc. is very far-left - even in Europe.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    > ...when at best she would be center, center-left to an European eye. You must understand something about her platform and policies, I sure don't. She hasn't said much of substance. All the bitching between the two of them is like watching my children argue.
    - thrance 2y ago
      That is true, but her party's economic policies have been consistently neoliberalist in the recent past.
  - hunterhod 2y ago
    Again, to be fair, she proposed (though now rescinded I believe) price controls on food.
    - thrance 2y ago

voidUpdate 2y ago

There is a good talk about this computer here https://youtu.be/K2chYqir53U https://youtu.be/K2chYqir53U, in the vein of similar talks about the commodore 64 and gameboy, that goes very in depth on the inner workings of the galaksija

rospaya 2y ago

> How one engineer beat the ban on home computers in socialist Yugoslavia The title simply isn't true. There was no ban on home computers, just a value limit for an import. And as the article shows, homegrown computers were common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_systems_from_Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_systems_from_...

sourcepluck 2y ago
Thanks for pointing that out! The Guardian is gone to the dogs, since many years now.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  I presume downvotes are coming because it turns out that the person I responded to was overstating their case somewhat. I was quick to presume the Guardian was being sloppy again, and that seems to have not been the case here. Fair enough.
pookha 2y ago
It's true from what I can see. They specifically banned the general public from importing any goods worth more than 50 Deutsche Marks (all computers). I'm sure those with connections could get around that and not wind up locked up though but after googling prisons in Yugoslavia I can see why DIY computing became popular.
grujicd 2y ago
It was not a ban on home computers, so wording is not the best one, but limiting value for an import is effectively a ban. Especially since there was a significant inflation at that time in Yugoslavia. Import limits were defined in dinars, and if it was enough for let's say Commodore 64 with disk drive, monitor and printer when new limit was introduced, the next year it was barely enough for Spectrum, and afterwards not even for that. If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't), Galaksija computer was planned around this limitation - CPU and other components had to be imported but they were below the import limit. So, in those periods when inflation made importing impossible, there were two main sources of "west" home computers - smuggling, and Yugoslav citizens who went abroad to work for few years were not subject to import limits when returning home with their personal belongings. General idea behind these limits was to strengthen domestic industry, and your list shows that - plethora of home computers made in Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, these computers were not compatible with anything and with no software they were educational tools at best. That's why no one was buying them except schools and other organizations who had no other choice. It changed a bit with Lira as it was PC compatible, but it came a bit later when Yugoslavia started opening up and these import limits were slowly lifted.

whobre 2y ago

Didn’t Sinclair ZX80 also use the CPU instead of a video chip?

doe_eyes 2y ago
No, they used a semi-custom chip known as an uncommitted logic array (ULA). It was basically a bunch of building blocks on a die that were designed once for a variety of possible applications, and then reconfigured by the factory to customer's spec. The idea was that most of the design work only needed to be done once, so cranking out customer-specific ASICs was cheaper than a 100% custom design. Now we have FPGAs, so this approach is pretty much obsolete.
- whobre 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure Zx80 didn’t have the ULA. Speccy definitely did, not sure about ZX81, though.

danielktdoranie 2y ago

Came to the comment section for the socialist cope “well actually”

cbeach 2y ago
Apologists for socialism will state the usual: "But that wasn't /real/ socialism" Socialists tend to believe that real socialism hasn't been tried properly yet. That's how they explain the litany of failure. And if anyone wants to try the "but Scandinavia is socialist and look how great they are" trope then bring it on...

sourcepluck 2y ago

https://archive.fo/KAAJC https://archive.fo/KAAJC

swores 2y ago
Off topic question: I'm wondering why you shared this link when the article is on a website that doesn't have a paywall and is big enough that it's not at risk of HN traffic being an effective ddos the way smaller websites can be affected. Just being helpful in case someone in the future finds this thread and the original link is dead?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]