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If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect the
by sundarurfriend 2y ago
If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country.
> I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.
If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British developers from touching their projects in any way, for their repeated aggressions and ruinous colonialism. This sort of behaviour is slowly building a soft Great Firewall around the West, and making it seem like China had the right idea all along.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- michaelmrose 2y agoRussia is unique in that they are both presently and historically a threat to the entire western world.
- est 2y ago> threat to the entire western world .... and China.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Ardum 2y ago[dead]
- tim333 2y agoNot so much a threat as actively attacking.
- smallstepforman 2y ago[flagged]
- ninkendo 2y ago> One could make the identical argument for the other world power No, one couldn’t.
- nataliste 2y agoI know this will get flagged and I'll get called a Russian despite being an American from flyover country: Yes, one definitely can tenably make that argument. The Monroe Doctrine, ironically, was precipitated by negotiations with Russia[1] and is almost identical in its aims for the Western Hemisphere as Putin's nominal arguments against NATO expansion eastward, namely the assertion that the Western Hemisphere was closed to European colonization and settlement. Is this Putin talking about NATO expansion? 'Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.' No, it's Dwight Eisenhower talking about communism in Indochina in 1954. The maxims "Principiis obsta" and "Finem respice" apply universally. The Monroe Doctrine and Domino Theory were both framed as defensive policies that were then used for protectionist and geopolitical justifications for foreign wars of aggression against neighbors and neutral independent countries. Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya didn't even have the protection of these broader geopolitical aims, just naked warmongering and profiteering (Osama Bin Laden was Saudi). The necessity for narratives of moral exceptionalism to maintain a permanently jingoist state is to be expected, but it'd be healthier for the intelligentsia to privately admit that fact rather than hiding behind moral exceptionalism even in their personal lives. The West wants to permanently de-fang and colonize Russia for obvious reasons--geopoltical hegemony and market intrusion. These reasons create a perennial playbook everyone else has played by for thousands of years. And I'm sure when NATO does inevitably fail to a novel power, the remnants will play by the same rules Monroe and Putin played by, sed Carthago delenda est.[3] [1] https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/monroe-doctrine https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/monroe-doctrine [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est
- Jomamadidit 2y ago[flagged]
- ChumpGPT 2y agoRussia is an Empire of Evil and Murder. Even Russian rulers hold their own people in contempt and have no use for them except as slaves. 800 years of their history proves it. Junk away.
- scheldon 2y ago[flagged]
- rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 2y ago>But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country If that would be the case no russian would have reached the maintainer status to anything related to the kernel.
- mipsi 2y agoYou missed the point, he didn't mention history in general, but specifically "Finnish history". In this respect it's not about British colonialism but more about about Russian imperialism / Stalinism (see Russo-Finnish war 1939).
- yehat 2y agoDid he just now realized that history? For over 30 years accepting contributions from the "enemy"? Then when the history is employed, how about he as a Finn bans also Swedish contributors?
- mipsi 2y agoDid you just realized that Torvald is not racist or anti-russian at all? He didn't block any russian maintainers until today (more than 2 years after russia turning genocidal imperial again).
- Jomamadidit 2y ago[flagged]
- dragonwriter 2y agoThe correlation of the historical anti-Finnish aggression with present aggression and direct new threats against Finland is fairly recent, and Linus isn't pointing to his awareness of the historical and present national context as a reason for the action but as a recent why it is silly to expect him to be lax about the legal advice that is the reason for the actions.
- Jomamadidit 2y ago[flagged]
- sundarurfriend 2y agoLinus is acting based on his country's historical grievances, it only makes sense that other projects make decisions based on their own maintainers' grievances - if we approve of this as a good way of making decisions in open source. That's my point. And even with Linux, it's not Linus' personal project anymore, hasn't been for decades - it's a global project with developers from many countries with their own views and biases. Being BDFL doesn't mean that your geopolitical agenda becomes the whole project's. Or at least, it wasn't so blatantly put on display previously that that was the case. A high profile project like Linux doing this will have long term repercussions for how open source operates globally.
- scoofy 2y agoRussia invaded it’s neighbor. These sanctions are one of the consequences. It sucks for the good-faith programmers in Russia but what would you have the rest of the world do? The Russian state must be sanctioned for its blatant disregard for international norms. Please don’t just respond with whataboutism. The whataboutism in these threads involves different people in different times. This is happening now.
- pphysch 2y agoYou can't invoke "international norms" and then in the very next paragraph "but no talking about precedent, that would be whataboutism". Norms are established through precedents. There are considerable precedents in the 21st century that military invasions DO NOT lead to international sanctions. So this isn't a valid argument, and it's true that that decision was emotional and politically motivated.
- scoofy 2y agoIt’s a perfectly valid argument. All invasions are generally bad, some worse than others. And, yes, some perpetrators of unjust invasions are punished worse than others. The idea that you turn a conversation about fairness for victims into a conversation about fairness for bullies means you don’t actually care about victims.
- pphysch 2y ago> And, yes, some perpetrators of unjust invasions are punished worse than others. In other words, there are no norms or standards for handling these situations. It's purely political.
- scoofy 2y agoIf you want perfect fairness for bullies, not victims, then you don’t actually care about victims at all. This whataboutism is a circular argument where any brazen invasion can be justified by some previous perceived slight. Because someone somewhere got away with something, now anything is permissible.
- chenning 2y agoThis isn't punishment. This is negative reinforcement. This applies to an ongoing unwanted behavior.
- varjag 2y agoA lot of these developers work at Russian war machine and secret police suppliers (like ALT Linux or Baikal) so no this is not just that.
- go13 2y ago[dead]
- paddy775 2y ago[flagged]