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Is there any evidence that that social media causes higher levels of dopamine release than say, music? Exercise? Eating? Regular old socialization? Games? Sun e

Is there any evidence that that social media causes higher levels of dopamine release than say, music? Exercise? Eating? Regular old socialization? Games? Sun exposure? I'm highly skeptical here, largely due to all the other moral panics based on questionable science that have come before claiming everything from phones (as in landlines) to video games were as addictive as crack.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Yep! The lawsuit cites one group within the company, called “TikTank,” which noted in an internal report that compulsive usage was “rampant” on the platform. It also quotes an unnamed executive who said kids watch TikTok because the algorithm is “really good.” “But I think we need to be cognizant of what it might mean for other opportunities. And when I say other opportunities, I literally mean sleep, and eating, and moving around the room, and looking at somebody in the eyes,” the unnamed executive said, according to the complaint. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tiktok-aware-risks-kids-teens-face-platform-legal-114739158 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tiktok-aware-risks-kids-... Straight from the horse’s mouth
- Mindwipe 2y ago
  That is absolutely not evidence.
  - acdha 2y ago
    It’s not a peer reviewed double blind study but it absolutely is evidence that the people with 95% share think that their product interferes with basic human needs and becomes habit forming after half an hour, just as it was evidence that R. J. Reynolds executives knew roughly how few cigarettes a teenager needed to smoke to become a lifelong customer even if they didn’t know the exact neuroscience of how that worked or run a psychology study trying to exactly quantify effectiveness.
    - Mindwipe 2y ago
      So, absolutely not evidence of dopamine release which is what the parent comment asked for.
      - acdha 2y ago
        No, it is evidence but it’s at different levels as explained. Trying to be pedantic is just obscuring whatever point you are trying to make.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    TikTok’s own research showing specifically that TikTok fixation is pulling kids away from the activities that GP listed? “Higher levels of dopamine release” is a nonsense metric. To the extent that it matters, it matters due to its ability to steer decision-making, and TikTok here is saying they know their product distorts decision-making in exactly the problematic manner. The particular mixture of hormone signals yielding those behaviors is a red herring.
    - Mindwipe 2y ago
      > “Higher levels of dopamine release” is a nonsense metric. Then the correct answer to the parent comment's request for evidence to the claims of higher levels of dopamine release is "no, there isn't any, and it is likely a fabricated claim" and not "here is something completely different that I am falsely going to claim is evidence to the question you asked."
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        Uhhh no one claimed it releases more dopamine than other activities, so the question itself was a red herring from the actual discussion. You're right though, you can go on your pedantic way :) Thank you for your contribution!
  - hinkley 2y ago
    From a lawsuit standpoint, that is evidence. In this case the poison is in the dose. Sex also releases a cascade of neurochemicals, but I challenge you to have more sex in a day than you can watch videos on TikTok in two hours. You can essentially hold down the button in the Skinner Box. You can use Google just like I can. You’re not asking because of curiosity, you’re asking because you’re hoping you won’t have to think.
hinkley 2y ago
This guy seems to be getting cited a lot: https://theconversation.com/debunking-the-6-biggest-myths-about-technology-addiction-95850 https://theconversation.com/debunking-the-6-biggest-myths-ab... Unfortunately he doesn’t single out games versus social media, and that seems to be because his position is that video games aren’t a blight on children. His belief in how few people this actually affects doesn’t line up with my own anecdotes about gaming addiction. And “goes away”? Well yes it’s not like heroin, you can quit without the aid of a doctor, but these people all had lifelong consequences from their overindulgence. It doesn’t “go away” like a rash, it goes away like a wound - leaving scar tissue. If you read all the way to the end, he concludes that overuse is a symptom of another neurological problems. Which makes it self medication, and to that I say, if you find a child with depression or ADHD self medicating with large quantities of caffeine, or an adult using cocaine to do the same, you don’t leave them on that much caffeine/narcotics. You get them on medicine that works better and reduce the stimulant abuse.

llamaimperative 2y ago

Yep! The lawsuit cites one group within the company, called “TikTank,” which noted in an internal report that compulsive usage was “rampant” on the platform. It also quotes an unnamed executive who said kids watch TikTok because the algorithm is “really good.” “But I think we need to be cognizant of what it might mean for other opportunities. And when I say other opportunities, I literally mean sleep, and eating, and moving around the room, and looking at somebody in the eyes,” the unnamed executive said, according to the complaint. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tiktok-aware-risks-kids-teens-face-platform-legal-114739158 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tiktok-aware-risks-kids-... Straight from the horse’s mouth

Mindwipe 2y ago
That is absolutely not evidence.
- acdha 2y ago
  It’s not a peer reviewed double blind study but it absolutely is evidence that the people with 95% share think that their product interferes with basic human needs and becomes habit forming after half an hour, just as it was evidence that R. J. Reynolds executives knew roughly how few cigarettes a teenager needed to smoke to become a lifelong customer even if they didn’t know the exact neuroscience of how that worked or run a psychology study trying to exactly quantify effectiveness.
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    So, absolutely not evidence of dopamine release which is what the parent comment asked for.
    - acdha 2y ago
      No, it is evidence but it’s at different levels as explained. Trying to be pedantic is just obscuring whatever point you are trying to make.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  TikTok’s own research showing specifically that TikTok fixation is pulling kids away from the activities that GP listed? “Higher levels of dopamine release” is a nonsense metric. To the extent that it matters, it matters due to its ability to steer decision-making, and TikTok here is saying they know their product distorts decision-making in exactly the problematic manner. The particular mixture of hormone signals yielding those behaviors is a red herring.
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    > “Higher levels of dopamine release” is a nonsense metric. Then the correct answer to the parent comment's request for evidence to the claims of higher levels of dopamine release is "no, there isn't any, and it is likely a fabricated claim" and not "here is something completely different that I am falsely going to claim is evidence to the question you asked."
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Uhhh no one claimed it releases more dopamine than other activities, so the question itself was a red herring from the actual discussion. You're right though, you can go on your pedantic way :) Thank you for your contribution!
- hinkley 2y ago
  From a lawsuit standpoint, that is evidence. In this case the poison is in the dose. Sex also releases a cascade of neurochemicals, but I challenge you to have more sex in a day than you can watch videos on TikTok in two hours. You can essentially hold down the button in the Skinner Box. You can use Google just like I can. You’re not asking because of curiosity, you’re asking because you’re hoping you won’t have to think.

hinkley 2y ago

This guy seems to be getting cited a lot: https://theconversation.com/debunking-the-6-biggest-myths-about-technology-addiction-95850 https://theconversation.com/debunking-the-6-biggest-myths-ab... Unfortunately he doesn’t single out games versus social media, and that seems to be because his position is that video games aren’t a blight on children. His belief in how few people this actually affects doesn’t line up with my own anecdotes about gaming addiction. And “goes away”? Well yes it’s not like heroin, you can quit without the aid of a doctor, but these people all had lifelong consequences from their overindulgence. It doesn’t “go away” like a rash, it goes away like a wound - leaving scar tissue. If you read all the way to the end, he concludes that overuse is a symptom of another neurological problems. Which makes it self medication, and to that I say, if you find a child with depression or ADHD self medicating with large quantities of caffeine, or an adult using cocaine to do the same, you don’t leave them on that much caffeine/narcotics. You get them on medicine that works better and reduce the stimulant abuse.