4 ms·

> It’s unfortunate that art selects so strongly for skill. Jackson Pollock begs to differ.

by randmeerkat 2y ago

aspenmayer 2y ago
Artistic skill lies not merely in the hand, but also in the eye.
- randmeerkat 2y ago
  > Artistic skill lies not merely in the hand, but also in the eye. Precisely. There is no skill in artistry, it’s rather just a developed sense of style, that doesn’t come from a medium or method, it comes from growing to know oneself.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    I agree. I think the distinction between arts and crafts is largely one of utility, rather than skill or technique.
    - randmeerkat 2y ago
      > I agree. I think the distinction between arts and crafts is largely one of utility, rather than skill or technique. Which is why I take offense to someone claiming that it selects for and requires skill. Especially because the ones making that argument are usually the ones arguing that they’re incapable of making art. I would tell them they just need to spend more time finding themselves.
      - aspenmayer 2y ago
        > Which is why I take offense to someone claiming that it selects for and requires skill. Especially because the ones making that argument are usually the ones arguing that they’re incapable of making art. I would tell them they just need to spend more time finding themselves. And spend more time (and intentional effort) in making art! It's like people want a shortcut to end result, when "real" artists know that the process of self-discovery is the reason and means through which they make the art in the first place. The map is not the territory. The purpose of the journey is the journey itself; the destination is simply a guiding star. A whole lot of aspirational mapmakers think if they only had "this one weird trick," they'd be gods.
        Filligree 2y ago
        Um, no, I want illustrations for my stories. That’s the end, and the means can be whatever. I don’t care to search for self-discovery in that.
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        That’s a reasonable expectation and desirable outcome in and of itself. Not everything needs to be intended to be art for it to be perceived as such. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Do you share your stories publicly? I’m curious what kind of stories you would write. It would be cool to have an HN writing group!
        Filligree 2y ago
        I do, but it’s obscure fanfiction. Admittedly with heavy computer science and AI inspirations, so maybe you’d find it interesting regardless? It’s over here: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/shards-of-a-broken-sun-megaten-shugo-chara-exalted.123509/ https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/shards-of-a-br...
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        I read the prologue and it seems neat! I'm not familiar with the fanfiction scene really, or the works yours is based on. How did the voting work? I like the pictures, and I can see how using AI would help a lot with that, especially in the context of existing characters, as matching styles and designs is something that AI is likely well-suited to do. I read a bit about Shugo Chara to see what it's about, and it seems like an interesting series. The way you presented your story reminded me of Steins;Gate a bit with the reality manipulation. Should I be familiar with the source material in order to appreciate your work better? Thanks for sharing your work. Are you working on any other pieces? Any anime recommendations, while you're here?
        Filligree 2y ago
  - bambax 2y ago
    Just watched "F for Fake" (Orson Welles, 1973), a documentary of sorts about the great art forger Elmyr de Hory who was able to imitate the style of many of his contemporaries to perfection (Modigliani, Matisse, etc.), fooling the painters themselves! At one point in the movie his biographer says > I think Elmyr's problem for years and the reason why he could not succeed as a painter in his own right was that the type of life he led prohibited him from having a personal vision. Elmyr had great skill, greater than anyone alive perhaps, but he had nothing to say.
    - randmeerkat 2y ago
      > Elmyr had great skill, greater than anyone alive perhaps, but he had nothing to say. I would argue that he spoke volumes and had a vision so vast that he was able to take perspective from any other’s view. What a rich life Elmyr must have led.

> It’s unfortunate that art selects so strongly for skill. Jackson Pollock begs to differ.

aspenmayer 2y ago

Artistic skill lies not merely in the hand, but also in the eye.

randmeerkat 2y ago
> Artistic skill lies not merely in the hand, but also in the eye. Precisely. There is no skill in artistry, it’s rather just a developed sense of style, that doesn’t come from a medium or method, it comes from growing to know oneself.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  I agree. I think the distinction between arts and crafts is largely one of utility, rather than skill or technique.
  - randmeerkat 2y ago
    > I agree. I think the distinction between arts and crafts is largely one of utility, rather than skill or technique. Which is why I take offense to someone claiming that it selects for and requires skill. Especially because the ones making that argument are usually the ones arguing that they’re incapable of making art. I would tell them they just need to spend more time finding themselves.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      > Which is why I take offense to someone claiming that it selects for and requires skill. Especially because the ones making that argument are usually the ones arguing that they’re incapable of making art. I would tell them they just need to spend more time finding themselves. And spend more time (and intentional effort) in making art! It's like people want a shortcut to end result, when "real" artists know that the process of self-discovery is the reason and means through which they make the art in the first place. The map is not the territory. The purpose of the journey is the journey itself; the destination is simply a guiding star. A whole lot of aspirational mapmakers think if they only had "this one weird trick," they'd be gods.
      - Filligree 2y ago
        Um, no, I want illustrations for my stories. That’s the end, and the means can be whatever. I don’t care to search for self-discovery in that.
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        That’s a reasonable expectation and desirable outcome in and of itself. Not everything needs to be intended to be art for it to be perceived as such. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Do you share your stories publicly? I’m curious what kind of stories you would write. It would be cool to have an HN writing group!
        Filligree 2y ago
        I do, but it’s obscure fanfiction. Admittedly with heavy computer science and AI inspirations, so maybe you’d find it interesting regardless? It’s over here: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/shards-of-a-broken-sun-megaten-shugo-chara-exalted.123509/ https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/shards-of-a-br...
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        I read the prologue and it seems neat! I'm not familiar with the fanfiction scene really, or the works yours is based on. How did the voting work? I like the pictures, and I can see how using AI would help a lot with that, especially in the context of existing characters, as matching styles and designs is something that AI is likely well-suited to do. I read a bit about Shugo Chara to see what it's about, and it seems like an interesting series. The way you presented your story reminded me of Steins;Gate a bit with the reality manipulation. Should I be familiar with the source material in order to appreciate your work better? Thanks for sharing your work. Are you working on any other pieces? Any anime recommendations, while you're here?
        Filligree 2y ago
- bambax 2y ago
  Just watched "F for Fake" (Orson Welles, 1973), a documentary of sorts about the great art forger Elmyr de Hory who was able to imitate the style of many of his contemporaries to perfection (Modigliani, Matisse, etc.), fooling the painters themselves! At one point in the movie his biographer says > I think Elmyr's problem for years and the reason why he could not succeed as a painter in his own right was that the type of life he led prohibited him from having a personal vision. Elmyr had great skill, greater than anyone alive perhaps, but he had nothing to say.
  - randmeerkat 2y ago
    > Elmyr had great skill, greater than anyone alive perhaps, but he had nothing to say. I would argue that he spoke volumes and had a vision so vast that he was able to take perspective from any other’s view. What a rich life Elmyr must have led.