4 ms·

It's invasive, heavy and more anti social than smartphones. Battery life is too short. Low volumes make software development for it unattractive. Companies keep

It's invasive, heavy and more anti social than smartphones. Battery life is too short. Low volumes make software development for it unattractive. Companies keep pouring into ar/vr billions and no sigle killer use case to show.

jsheard 2y ago
> Companies keep pouring into ar/vr billions and no single killer use case to show. Beat Saber did pretty well but then Apple made a headset that can't even play Beat Saber.
- bane 2y ago
  Apple has, somewhere deep in its DNA, an almost pathological aversion to become the Amiga -- a ridiculously capable computer for its time that is mostly known today for games. They've always low-prioritized games and its really shaped the company.
  - gyomu 2y ago
    The problem with video games is that publishers want to get on as many platforms as they can, so they have no loyalty to any specific hardware platform, which goes against Apple’s entire modus operandi - Apple wants its 3rd party developers making things only for Apple platforms, so that it’ll be really hard for customers to switch. The only way to get around that in gaming is to have 1st/2nd party developers (like Nintendo/Sony tend to do), but making games has never been in Apple’s culture. Movies/TV shows are a bit closer to their DNA, and they’ve started producing those with mixed results - games would be a much taller order.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Really should have done with Meta did and grab one talented group to help them do this. And just work on a portfolio of decently fun, professionally made games. Not like Amazon that tried to just jump headfirst into MMOs and pretend you can buy yourself a fun game. It's much too late in this stage of the industry to just look attractive for exclusives; the industry standardized (compared to a PS1 disc vs a N64 cartridge) and no one's throwing enough money to carry that plan long enough to pay off Like Microsoft kind of did. Not even FAANGs. But it's never too late to just make good games and foster series your platform is known for, like Nintendo. But then again, Meta just shuttered that studio despite a hit game series from them, so who knows what's going on anymore?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      That isn't a problem, exclusives are a common thing in the game industry as old as it exists. It is always a symbiotic relationship, what is missing, is that Apple doesn't play their part of exclusives like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft do (and SEGA in the past).
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    it's almost clockwork how they will use games for 1 year to showcase something for their hardware... and then proceed for 3-4 years to de-prioritize it until they need to yet again, show off their hardware. that cycle came back last year when they used AAA games to showcase the power of the iPhone 15 and for devs, talk more about their porting toolkit. The last cycle was showcasing the M1 chip and Apple Arcade. Yet these came after they actively fought against Vulkan support (and now they are using some form of MoltenVK to help with their porting tech) and hard blocked several cloud gaming platforms. Things that could have made their job a lot easier (and maybe cheaper). so I suppose in 2-3 years we'll see Beat Saber working when they get serious with VR.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      To be fair I am still waiting for a WebGL 2.0 game that can match the Infinity Blade they used to show off OpenGL ES 3 capabilities.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    I think it relates to how both Steves worked for Atari during their early career, and probably imposed they point of view on the culture. Other than that their only attempt was the failed Pippin, so yet another reason to hate games, other than those on iDevices, bringing money home.
textadventure 2y ago
Isn't that the kind of description of the first iteration of many innovative products? The iPad was mocked just as much if not more, it was a big iphone without the phone, with no possibility of multitasking and a plethora of other limitations and yet now tablets are ubiquitous. It's not hard to see how this product could continue to be streamlined and made more accessible in the future. edit: typos, clarity
- HKH2 2y ago
  How is it innovative?
  - jachee 2y ago
    The connection to the real world from inside is incredible. You can forget you’re not looking through heavy googles but rather at a screen.
  - textadventure 2y ago
    Well, for one thing being able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands, seems pretty unique.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      > being to able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands You mean kinda like how I can move my finger a few centimeters to interface with a complex, multi-windowed computer desktop?
      - textadventure 2y ago
        You know perfectly well that you can't use any computer without touching a controller of some kind.
        defrost 2y ago
        That seems improbable and a challenge for many here. eg: Theremoose - the Theremin Controlled Computer Mouse https://www.instructables.com/Theremoose-the-Theremin-Controlled-Computer-Mouse/ https://www.instructables.com/Theremoose-the-Theremin-Contro... In the disability domain voice operations have a history.
the_clarence 2y ago
Agree. The Quest 3 and Quest 3S are so much better and so much cheaper and can run games. Why would anyone buy a Vision Pro
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  The Quest 3 OS and UX is much jankier than VisionOS. Which is a huge downside for something that users are literally forced to stare at.
  - tesch1 2y ago
    This so much. Can wear the AVP for hours uninterrupted, but lasted 10 mins in Occulus 3 before getting queasy. Have given AVP demos to dozens of people, offering varying degrees of guidance and everyone just "gets it" after a couple minutes regardless. Eye and hand tracking UI is phenomenal and awesome.
  - aranelsurion 2y ago
    Since most VR experiences are immersive and take up your entire view, you barely see the OS other than first time setting it up and then launching apps. Would be nice if it was better, I don’t see it as a “huge downside” as you do though.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      For the average user, not the enthusiast, they are going to be spending much more time proportionally interacting with the OS, because they spend much less time total per day using the device.

jsheard 2y ago

> Companies keep pouring into ar/vr billions and no single killer use case to show. Beat Saber did pretty well but then Apple made a headset that can't even play Beat Saber.

bane 2y ago
Apple has, somewhere deep in its DNA, an almost pathological aversion to become the Amiga -- a ridiculously capable computer for its time that is mostly known today for games. They've always low-prioritized games and its really shaped the company.
- gyomu 2y ago
  The problem with video games is that publishers want to get on as many platforms as they can, so they have no loyalty to any specific hardware platform, which goes against Apple’s entire modus operandi - Apple wants its 3rd party developers making things only for Apple platforms, so that it’ll be really hard for customers to switch. The only way to get around that in gaming is to have 1st/2nd party developers (like Nintendo/Sony tend to do), but making games has never been in Apple’s culture. Movies/TV shows are a bit closer to their DNA, and they’ve started producing those with mixed results - games would be a much taller order.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Really should have done with Meta did and grab one talented group to help them do this. And just work on a portfolio of decently fun, professionally made games. Not like Amazon that tried to just jump headfirst into MMOs and pretend you can buy yourself a fun game. It's much too late in this stage of the industry to just look attractive for exclusives; the industry standardized (compared to a PS1 disc vs a N64 cartridge) and no one's throwing enough money to carry that plan long enough to pay off Like Microsoft kind of did. Not even FAANGs. But it's never too late to just make good games and foster series your platform is known for, like Nintendo. But then again, Meta just shuttered that studio despite a hit game series from them, so who knows what's going on anymore?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    That isn't a problem, exclusives are a common thing in the game industry as old as it exists. It is always a symbiotic relationship, what is missing, is that Apple doesn't play their part of exclusives like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft do (and SEGA in the past).
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  it's almost clockwork how they will use games for 1 year to showcase something for their hardware... and then proceed for 3-4 years to de-prioritize it until they need to yet again, show off their hardware. that cycle came back last year when they used AAA games to showcase the power of the iPhone 15 and for devs, talk more about their porting toolkit. The last cycle was showcasing the M1 chip and Apple Arcade. Yet these came after they actively fought against Vulkan support (and now they are using some form of MoltenVK to help with their porting tech) and hard blocked several cloud gaming platforms. Things that could have made their job a lot easier (and maybe cheaper). so I suppose in 2-3 years we'll see Beat Saber working when they get serious with VR.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    To be fair I am still waiting for a WebGL 2.0 game that can match the Infinity Blade they used to show off OpenGL ES 3 capabilities.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  I think it relates to how both Steves worked for Atari during their early career, and probably imposed they point of view on the culture. Other than that their only attempt was the failed Pippin, so yet another reason to hate games, other than those on iDevices, bringing money home.

textadventure 2y ago

Isn't that the kind of description of the first iteration of many innovative products? The iPad was mocked just as much if not more, it was a big iphone without the phone, with no possibility of multitasking and a plethora of other limitations and yet now tablets are ubiquitous. It's not hard to see how this product could continue to be streamlined and made more accessible in the future. edit: typos, clarity

HKH2 2y ago
How is it innovative?
- jachee 2y ago
  The connection to the real world from inside is incredible. You can forget you’re not looking through heavy googles but rather at a screen.
- textadventure 2y ago
  Well, for one thing being able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands, seems pretty unique.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    > being to able to interface with it by simply gesturing with your hands You mean kinda like how I can move my finger a few centimeters to interface with a complex, multi-windowed computer desktop?
    - textadventure 2y ago
      You know perfectly well that you can't use any computer without touching a controller of some kind.
      - defrost 2y ago
        That seems improbable and a challenge for many here. eg: Theremoose - the Theremin Controlled Computer Mouse https://www.instructables.com/Theremoose-the-Theremin-Controlled-Computer-Mouse/ https://www.instructables.com/Theremoose-the-Theremin-Contro... In the disability domain voice operations have a history.

the_clarence 2y ago

Agree. The Quest 3 and Quest 3S are so much better and so much cheaper and can run games. Why would anyone buy a Vision Pro

MichaelZuo 2y ago
The Quest 3 OS and UX is much jankier than VisionOS. Which is a huge downside for something that users are literally forced to stare at.
- tesch1 2y ago
  This so much. Can wear the AVP for hours uninterrupted, but lasted 10 mins in Occulus 3 before getting queasy. Have given AVP demos to dozens of people, offering varying degrees of guidance and everyone just "gets it" after a couple minutes regardless. Eye and hand tracking UI is phenomenal and awesome.
- aranelsurion 2y ago
  Since most VR experiences are immersive and take up your entire view, you barely see the OS other than first time setting it up and then launching apps. Would be nice if it was better, I don’t see it as a “huge downside” as you do though.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    For the average user, not the enthusiast, they are going to be spending much more time proportionally interacting with the OS, because they spend much less time total per day using the device.